morphsci Posted July 21, 2008 Report Posted July 21, 2008 Sorry, you did tell me that the next time we spoke. I felt so bad for you, after seeing you assemble an entire Salamander (or the like) 5 shelf home entertainment center, and then not being able to use your beautiful system. But...wasn't eveything else powered up that was plugged into the P500? The esound wouldn't work off of the regenerated outlets either so it and the GS-X were on the non-regenerated outlets which worked just fine and never had to be repaired. I decided to quit fiddling with my shit and enjoy the meet before I could try the ES-1 on the non-regenerated outlets.
morphsci Posted July 21, 2008 Report Posted July 21, 2008 .... The one in Chicago may have been Absorbine's Zana that wouldn't fire up (Feb. meet)? That is correct but my ES-1 had a problem at Chiunifi last November. You can see above however that the problem was not actually with the ES-1.
Pars Posted July 21, 2008 Report Posted July 21, 2008 Ahh, I think I got confused How many Zana's or WA5's or B-52's have we heard about this common occurence Thought he was contrasting some other failures... upon rereading I guess not.
Elephas Posted July 21, 2008 Report Posted July 21, 2008 In no way do I condone Mikhail's business practices and I won't defend them other than to say that I know of nobody who has actually lost money or goods. I'll totally stop defending him if it comes to light that some people have. Maybe one could argue that technically, I haven't lost money or goods...yet. But I haven't received goods that were promised to me five months ago. How much longer do I wait until it becomes a loss? Mikhail lied to me when I tried to sell my amps in Feb. 2008. He said the upgrades to both amps were completed and they were ready to ship. Instead of selling the amps, I sent him money, and have now been without the amps or the money for 5 months. Is that a loss of money or goods? I think it was definitely dishonesty, not just "bad business practice."
swt61 Posted July 21, 2008 Report Posted July 21, 2008 I think it was definitely dishonesty, not just "bad business practice." I'd have to agree. Have you asked him to buy the amp back from you?
Absorbine_Sr Posted July 21, 2008 Report Posted July 21, 2008 The one in Chicago may have been Absorbine's Zana that wouldn't fire up (Feb. meet)? That was mine. And it took a while to get fixed, mostly because Craig was doing his best to help me fix it at home without the need to send it in. But I'm not a DIY'er and the process got frustrating. When Craig realized this he replaced the power supply quickly and without question and all has been good since. Much better than 5 month waits.
Fing Posted July 21, 2008 Report Posted July 21, 2008 I knew the dam would burst eventually and I'm pretty sure SP will manage to survive the negativity and criticism. I hope Mikhail can respond to this situation as a proper wake-up call and not just a knee-jerk patch up effort until the masses quieten down and then it's back to business as usual. I agree with N_Maher that a lot of the problems with SP seem to stem from the custom side of it, compounded by what seems like a severe lack of working organisational procedure and process. I think Mikhail has been overly ambitious from the start and learning the hard way why no one does this without charging ridiculous sums of money for the priviledge (some would say he already does - personally I don't think he charges as much as he needs to) as well as placing a limit on the number of orders taken each year - especially if he is the only person who can do the work for these units and trouble-shoot each and every problem amp that gets sent back. What I do find puzzling is why so much is dependent on Mikhail, even what I would consider relatively mundane tasks. Are the staff he hires completely worthless, or does he manage to obfuscate the day to day issues such that they are rendered totally ineffective? What's happened to Jay? Does he have a proper Q&A department? I'm also puzzled by the whole postal issue. I've been waiting on a shipment from him since February and it seems only he can send it out, despite it being packaged and ready to ship for months. I've been patient because it's really a goodwill guesture until something bigger and better comes along, so I've not really been pushing for it. However, if it's ready, why not just send it? Well, here's hoping that things improve for you Mikhail - best of luck!
guzziguy Posted July 21, 2008 Report Posted July 21, 2008 Maybe one could argue that technically, I haven't lost money or goods...yet. But I haven't received goods that were promised to me five months ago. How much longer do I wait until it becomes a loss? Mikhail lied to me when I tried to sell my amps in Feb. 2008. He said the upgrades to both amps were completed and they were ready to ship. Instead of selling the amps, I sent him money, and have now been without the amps or the money for 5 months. Is that a loss of money or goods? I think it was definitely dishonesty, not just "bad business practice." I agree that he's lied to you about it being ready to ship. I'm sure you weren't the first or the last. I consider being lied to "bad business practice" until the point I've been cheated out of my money. Then it becomes fraud. I'd have to agree. Have you asked him to buy the amp back from you? If you haven't, why don't you? If he will, then the problem for you is done. Otherwise, I'd try to work out some kind of plan. If I couldn't do that to my satisfaction, then I'd see what legal recourse I had, because then it would be fraud to me.
n_maher Posted July 21, 2008 Author Report Posted July 21, 2008 I agree that he's lied to you about it being ready to ship. I'm sure you weren't the first or the last. I consider being lied to "bad business practice" until the point I've been cheated out of my money. Then it becomes fraud.I think you're being a bit kind here, Ken. Missing a shipping deadline by a few days or a week is one thing if an explanation is provided (note - not being done is a valid excuse). Telling someone that their amp is done, ready to ship, packed and ready to go, etc. is way more than just bad business and is clearly an intentional deception. I mean he knows the amps aren't done when he says that. As to when the lies become fraud I don't know, but I don't blame some of the participants here from feeling defrauded. Whether or not they have been in the legal sense is probably left up to lawyers to decide.
guzziguy Posted July 21, 2008 Report Posted July 21, 2008 I think you're being a bit kind here, Ken. Missing a shipping deadline by a few days or a week is one thing if an explanation is provided (note - not being done is a valid excuse). Telling someone that their amp is done, ready to ship, packed and ready to go, etc. is way more than just bad business and is clearly an intentional deception. I mean he knows the amps aren't done when he says that. As to when the lies become fraud I don't know, but I don't blame some of the participants here from feeling defrauded. Whether or not they have been in the legal sense is probably left up to lawyers to decide. I don't think I'm being kind. Mikhail does this and shouldn't. It's bad business and people will eventually respond as they are now. Mikhail should give realistic schedules and meet them. If he doesn't, he should be forthright about why and give a new schedule and meet that. Not meeting a schedule should be an uncommon occurrence. He definitely should not say something is "ready to ship" when it is not or make other excuses. All he has to do is be honest about it. Most people can handle that. It will be hard for SP to survive this and SP, and SP alone, are to blame. Hopefully nobody will lose money if they go out of business, but people probably will. I also understand why people are unhappy. I was when my ship date slipped several times and was lied to at least once about it. However, I knew the risk I took and didn't complain, at least to anybody but Mikhail. In the end, I did receive it and am satisfied. Since then, I won't do any upgrades or anything else with SP unless I can be sure that I will receive it when promised. SP is losing some business because I'd like to do an upgrade. Please don't think that I'm condoning Mikhail's business practices because I'm not, and voting so with my money. So IMO, the unrealistic schedules and lies about shipping state, etc. are bad business, but they are not fraud. I don't think a jury would think so either (not lawyers) but who knows. We may well find out in the near future. Note: I use SP and Mikhail interchangeably, they are the same in this post.
immtbiker Posted July 21, 2008 Report Posted July 21, 2008 A sharp memory! Indeed I posted that, BUT it was a joke. This didn't happen: we were pulling Tom's leg as he was waiting for the ES1. You can ask krazy StevieO, he was driving the car. First of all, you are insane to let Stevieo drive you anywhere, even to the corner. Second of all...good one. You had me going. I had visions of you guys driving up Interstate 95 with Mikhail holding a 35 lb unit in his lap, soldering tube sockets between each bump. with solder smoke streaming from the car like a Cheech and Chong movie. It ended up that the amp that Mikhail had for Tom (after a double digit month wait) was really Hirsch's that Mikhaik took by mistake from the DC and Tom (after he and I had Carpel Tunnel Syndrome, after maunaully removing 36 3" wood screws from the crate) realized it wasn't his. Luckily, Tom has the patience of Job, and other equipment to listen to.
Salt Peanuts Posted July 21, 2008 Report Posted July 21, 2008 How much longer do I wait until it becomes a loss? I think technically, you're already there. According to FCT, every time he is/was going to miss the promised delivery date, he was required to inform you of the delay, give you the revised delivery date, and an option to cancel the order for a full refund.
Elephas Posted July 22, 2008 Report Posted July 22, 2008 I'd have to agree. Have you asked him to buy the amp back from you? Yes, I have. He ignored me. I've asked Mikhail to bring the amps to the Colorado Head-Fi meet on July 26. It would be the first time anyone other than Mikhail lays eyes on them since 2007. He hasn't responded to my request.
naamanf Posted July 22, 2008 Report Posted July 22, 2008 I've asked Mikhail to bring the amps to the Colorado Head-Fi meet on July 26. It would be the first time anyone other than Mikhail lays eyes on them since 2007. Start holding breath in 3...2...1...
MASantos Posted July 22, 2008 Report Posted July 22, 2008 Just read through the whole thread! It is really a shame what's going on! I hope that all those who are havin problems with SP get things worked out and that Mickail can resolve his business problems! Just realized, 1st post on head-case!
guzziguy Posted July 22, 2008 Report Posted July 22, 2008 Yes, I have. He ignored me. I've asked Mikhail to bring the amps to the Colorado Head-Fi meet on July 26. It would be the first time anyone other than Mikhail lays eyes on them since 2007. He hasn't responded to my request. I'm assuming that you are doing this via email. I suggest sending him a registered letter or your equivalent. This is a letter that guaranties and documents that SP has received the letter. In it, state the terms of what SP can do to make you happy and give a reasonable date for him to comply with your terms. Tell SP that if they don't comply, the next letter will be to the Colorado Attorney General. Another approach would be to hire a Colorado attorney to do the same thing for you. Sorry that it has come to this for you.
Voltron Posted July 22, 2008 Report Posted July 22, 2008 Yes, I have. He ignored me. I've asked Mikhail to bring the amps to the Colorado Head-Fi meet on July 26. It would be the first time anyone other than Mikhail lays eyes on them since 2007. He hasn't responded to my request. I don't intend to get into the middle of this issue, but I spoke to Mikhail yesterday about a lot of the stuff that has been stirring here and on HF. Your story came up and not surprisingly he has a different take on your situation with him. He did not go into specifics, but repeated that he has had the amps ready to ship since February. He vaguely referenced certain chassis changes or other issues that were not completely resolved and he did not want to ship them all the way to you if there were unresolved issues. People have suggested that he just ship the amps to you but he said he has held off because he wants to come to a reasonable solution. I don't know if any of that is true, but that is what he said. I am not taking sides, but if he says he has the amps completed with the upgrades you requested, then why not have him ship them to you? If nothing else, it will call his bluff and you will know whether he has them ready. Maybe you can have somebody in Colorado check them out before he ships, but I am not sure who would do it and how. Asr is one option, and bringing them to the meet is another option, although Mikhail may not want to run the risk of something happening to one of them at a meet. In general, Mikhail repeated many of the things that have been attributed to him here or on HF about changing his custom work policies and selling only a limited number of amps and only when they are completed and on the shelves. I suggested that he make a similar statement on his website or at HF, but without taking the JenaLabs approach. Not sure if/when he would do that, but he admits to being to blame for some issues and being bad at making viable time commitments. I said he has to be brutally honest about timelines and any other issues with his customers and he agreed. To my mind, he seems genuinely sorry that things have gone this far and says he is committed to straightening out all back-log issues and moving forward. We shall see.
n_maher Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Posted July 22, 2008 If Mikhail is getting any legal advice about this situation I'm sure he won't be posting anything that admits fault. It would be monumentally unwise to do so. Conversations over the phone with people is one thing but I doubt we'll see any official statements until everything has been resolved. And if Mikhail has had the amps ready to ship for 5 months it would have been no problem for him to take the pictures that Elephas requested.
Voltron Posted July 22, 2008 Report Posted July 22, 2008 If Mikhail is getting any legal advice about this situation I'm sure he won't be posting anything that admits fault. It would be monumentally unwise to do so. Conversations over the phone with people is one thing but I doubt we'll see any official statements until everything has been resolved. And if Mikhail has had the amps ready to ship for 5 months it would have been no problem for him to take the pictures that Elephas requested. I don't know all the details about the deal with Elephas, and I am not trying to make excuses for Mikhail or taking his side. Asking for pics is reasonable and I did the same when my SP amp was seriously behind schedule. Not getting them is fishy and casts doubt. Still, I am curious whether Elephas would agree there were open issues that might explain the delay, and mostly I am talking about what Elephas does NOW. I am really not sure it is worth his time or money to pursue a lawsuit or other legal process, so if the amps are in fact done then he can either take delivery or sell them. I hope he is able to resolve things soon and satisfactorily. And by the way, I told Mikhail the same thing I said earlier in this thread regarding my unwillingness to send him my amp for repair/upgrade/etc because of the continuing issues. I said it would be too risky for me at this point, and his response was that he understood but thinks he will be able to get on track. He said more than once that custom work will be more the exception than the rule going forward and that if somebody wants to start a custom project they will have to accept a six-month or one-year timeline depending on the complexity/novelty. If he clears out the back log and sticks to this plan then many of his problems would be gone. Workmanship or build style and the like is a different matter, but I don't think I am qualified or have enough information to comment on those things.
spritzer Posted July 22, 2008 Report Posted July 22, 2008 My guess is that Mikhail is full of shit as usual but for Michael's (Elephas) sake I'd love to be proven wrong. Why would you ignore your customer when his units are ready to ship out? He should take those pictures ASAP to prove that he's not a lying sack of shit and that includes full internal shots to show the upgrades.
n_maher Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Posted July 22, 2008 I don't know all the details about the deal with Elephas, and I am not trying to make excuses for Mikhail or taking his side. Didn't mean to imply that you were Al, just tossing in my 2
Dusty Chalk Posted July 22, 2008 Report Posted July 22, 2008 ...He did not go into specifics, but repeated that he has had the amps ready to ship since February. He vaguely referenced certain chassis changes or other issues that were not completely resolved and he did not want to ship them all the way to you if there were unresolved issues. People have suggested that he just ship the amps to you but he said he has held off because he wants to come to a reasonable solution...The ball is not in Elephas' court, it's in Mikhail's. One of the resolutions to the issues has been and continues to be to ship the effin' amps, already. So I'm seeing a little bit of an infinite loop in Mikhail's mind -- he doesn't want to ship the amps until issues are resolved, but the issues would be resolved if he'd just ship the amps. These vaguely referenced chassis changes or whatever should be just gotten over and done with, if they're not important enough to discuss clearly, then he needs to just finish them. Sounds like he has a problem with finishing a project.
Voltron Posted July 22, 2008 Report Posted July 22, 2008 Nate- I didn't think that you were implying anything, and I just wanted to be clear. I have had this same kind of conversation with Mikhail several times over the last couple of years, including during my own struggle to get my SDS-XLR completed. I just think he has gotten the message in a more direct way this time. Dusty- From reading somewhere, I thought Elephas had told Mikhail he doesn't want the amps anymore or doesn't want them shipped to him because he might sell them, or some such. That was what I assumed Mikhail meant when he said others were advising him to just send the completed amps anyway. I'd rather wait for Elephas to respond instead of speculating, but I thought I read that in one of his posts.
spritzer Posted July 22, 2008 Report Posted July 22, 2008 From reading somewhere, I thought Elephas had told Mikhail he doesn't want the amps anymore or doesn't want them shipped to him because he might sell them, or some such. That was what I assumed Mikhail meant when he said others were advising him to just send the completed amps anyway. I'd rather wait for Elephas to respond instead of speculating, but I thought I read that in one of his posts. I believe that is true. He sent payment for the mods after approaching Mikhail about his intention of selling the amps after months of waiting. That was in February and the amps were supposed to have been completed then. If Mikhail wasn't dodging his phone calls then it might make sense that there were some unresolved issued to be worked out before shipping...
Dusty Chalk Posted July 22, 2008 Report Posted July 22, 2008 Dusty- From reading somewhere, I thought Elephas had told Mikhail he doesn't want the amps anymore or doesn't want them shipped to him because he might sell them, or some such. That was what I assumed Mikhail meant when he said others were advising him to just send the completed amps anyway. I'd rather wait for Elephas to respond instead of speculating, but I thought I read that in one of his posts.He did say that, but then Mikhail convinced him that they were done and ready to ship -- that was the whole point of stating that they were done and ready, and convincing him not to sell them. If this is not clear in Mikhail's mind, then that's part of the problem right there. And yes, I realize we're all being third parties in what is essentially between Elephas and Mikhail, but we're trying to give Elephas good advice, so I agree it would help to know at least Elephas' side straight from him.
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