Career Change Advice

[postjack]

Hey-

In the past three years I've held various branch level positions at a monster mega bank. The pay has been decent enough for a single person with no mortgage or other major debt to speak of, but I've long since grown weary of the job, and to be perfectly honest without trying to sound arrogant, I'm too smart for this job. I very recently finished my degree in English. My original intention was to pursue further education and a life in academia, but that no longer feels like the right path.

So I'm considering going to part time or no time and returning to school for a completely different degree. I'm considering either Accounting or Computer Science. I'm very interested in taxes and numbers, but I've always been a geek and computers were my first love even before literature.

So I'm asking all of your advice on a couple things. First, if anyone majored in either of the above fields of study, what was your experience like in school, and what do you do for a living now? Second, any experience you have with career changes you'd like to share would be appreciated.

I'm 27 years old and am lucky enough to be in a financial position where I can do something like this without incurring loan debt.

Thanks so much.

[grawk]

I can't in good faith recommend anyone go into computers who's looking for an interesting and challenging career. The number of awful jobs is high, and the number of good interesting jobs is low. Plus, if you're starting as an adult, it's too late. It's either something you've been doing for a decade, or you're gonna have too far to catch up. If you've been more than a geek, and have been studying programming all along, then that's different . But a computer science degree doesn't really apply in the real world anyway, it's just a foundation.

I can't imagine that accounting will be more intellectually stimulating than banking. I'd find other finance fields if you're looking for challenge

[postjack]

Thanks Dan, that's just the sort of advice I'm looking for.

[Augsburger]

First off, with your background in branch banking and your interest in numbers I would recommend that you consider a lateral move to the Finance department of the bank's headquarters, a logical transition assuming you still like the banking environment. Another avenue to consider would be possibly returning to school for your MBA in Finance. Headquarter's fianance groups love to staff themselves with MBAs.

I transitioned from clinical psychology degree in Southern California to an MBA working for Citicorp in Manhattan, go figure. As they say in Germany, alles moglich.

Good luck to you I hope things go your way. I am leaving the office for a meeting all day, if you have further questions feel free to pm me.

Greg

[Cankin]

If you really like to work with Tax, I think you'll need something more than a degree, probably CPA? or if you'd like to work in financial or banking industry(like myself), CFA should be a good choice.

http://www.cfainstitute.org/

[Dusty Chalk]

My advice is to stay in school and take classes in what interests you until you figure out what really interests you, even if that means going back to academia -- remember, emotions are fickle, you may be having a lull in your affection for your job, but your feelings for it might return, as well.

[laxx]

I agree with grawk (is his name Dan? I'm going to try and refer to people by their first name) on his take about Comp Sci. Programming is rarely fun, and the last time I found it fun was programming for a startup that interested me. Those jobs are rare, and I'm currently programming for a small finance company here in Manhattan. It's boring, but it pays the bills.

But if you're interested in it, then I say go for it. Study a few years of it and have some fun. When you get your degree and you still enjoy it, give it a crack and see where it takes you. If you know for a fact you dont' want to do it for a living, there are many options in the finance world that a CS degree can take you. A CS degree basically shows your competant in logic and your mathematical skills are top notch. I know plenty of CS/Engineers who took the quatitative analyst/developer route and make a good living.

But hey, what do I know, I'm 24. =T

[Dusty Chalk]

Yeah -- you really don't need a Comp. Sci. degree to be a programmer -- taking a couple language classes should be sufficient. You really only need a Computer Science degree if you're going to be a computer scientist -- which, like, 1 out of every thousand of us really do. I happen to eat this stuff up, and it sounds like you might, too, but when anyone asks me what I do, I just say "computers...programming..." and don't go into the details unless I'm pressed, because I do know that it's boring to most others.

[krrm]

In the university I studied electronic circuit design, mostly digital, but started to work for a major telco. After various jobs that more required someone with an education rather than a specific education, I decided to get into programing and spent a lot of spare time learning Java. And I was able to shift my job towards more and more programming. Now I do 100% programming and related tasks.

I was over 30 when I switched and for me this was the right thing . I had great fun during my Java learning time as I had a project on my own where I could try out various stuff in a meaningful context and I still like my job. In a way, writing code is a more or less a continuation of building lego. But as Grawk mentioned there is a lot of computer jobs that looks boring. So before you make a drastic move, be as sure as possible that you know what you want.

Btw. (computer) security is a field where I believe a lot of work will be done in the future and a field that will require a lot of various professions to work together.

[saint.panda]

The advice about an MBA sounds like very good advice and it looks like you could afford it, too. Not sure if you care or not, but it would probably look better on a CV than starting over, too. Although I'm against the CV-craze, it is something to consider. Perhaps you can just pursue another master's degree without doing the whole bachelor's thing again?

I also agree that accounting isn't particularly intellectually challenging. As part of my masters in economics and finance, I'm taking a few accounting classes (together with accounting majors) because I thought it might be useful, which it is, but I think it's not something you have to dedicate an entire study for. If you're looking for an intellectual challenge, I doubt accounting can provide that as it feels more like memory training at times. Finance is a lot more more interesting, a lot more relevant (but who am I telling that), and it involves more numbers.

Actually, I don't like finance much for personal reasons, but it's a very challenging field with nearly limitless potential if you're good at it. Perhaps something to consider, especially with your background.

Can't comment on computer science except that the IT guys I work with on a website study EE, EE and biology.

[laxx]

One option of yours is to stay where you are and continue working and go to night classes to get an MBA. It might also work to your benefit if your company provides you with tuition reimbursement. =T

[aerius]

Stay the fuck away from computers unless you eat, sleep, live, and breathe computers, otherwise, you'll grow to hate it by the time you're a year into your classes. My degree is in Comp Sci, I thought I liked computers, by the time 4th year came around I couldn't wait to graduate and get the fuck away from anything related to the damn things. Job prospects aren't on an upswing either since we're headed into a long & bad recession.

In terms of accounting, I have a feeling the IRS and FDIC will be in need of a lot of forensics & investigative accountants once the current wave of investment banking & lending fraud starts getting prosecuted. The FDIC's already hiring and once the subpeonas start flying the IRS and FBI will be looking to hire as well.

[ecclesand]

Go get your MBA and do some consulting work for IBM, Accenture, etc. The work is very interesting and you will never get bored because you're off to the next client before boredom even begins to set in! Of course, you have to 'give your life to the firm' by becoming a road warrior, but if you're single, then that's part of the fun. I still work for one of the big consulting firms, but I don't travel anymore...I work from home. I'm part of an outsourced group that I helped put together that does all the Oracle development and production support for a client company. I've been doing this gig for over 8 years now and still enjoy it. The working from home helps.

[Augsburger]

Stay the fuck away from computers unless you eat, sleep, live, and breathe computers, otherwise, you'll grow to hate it by the time you're a year into your classes. My degree is in Comp Sci, I thought I liked computers, by the time 4th year came around I couldn't wait to graduate and get the fuck away from anything related to the damn things. Job prospects aren't on an upswing either since we're headed into a long & bad recession.

In terms of accounting, I have a feeling the IRS and FDIC will be in need of a lot of forensics & investigative accountants once the current wave of investment banking & lending fraud starts getting prosecuted. The FDIC's already hiring and once the subpeonas start flying the IRS and FBI will be looking to hire as well.

Those are Government Agencies and Government Agencies don't pay didly. He already has a job, he dosen't need another (boring Government Agency) job. If you go to work fo the IRS, you will have to sell all your gear to pay for food.

Other than that, I agree with everything everyone has said already.

[aardvark baguette]

Those are Government Agencies and Government Agencies don't pay didly. He already has a job, he dosen't need another (boring Government Agency) job. If you go to work fo the IRS, you will have to sell all your gear to pay for food.

Other than that, I agree with everything everyone has said already.

Yeah, dont plan on getting rich in the government, I think. But they can have good, safe health/benefits packages. Of course you may not care about getting rich, idk.

[aerius]

Those are Government Agencies and Government Agencies don't pay didly. He already has a job, he dosen't need another (boring Government Agency) job. If you go to work fo the IRS, you will have to sell all your gear to pay for food.

FDIC starting salary is around $45k a year, going all the way up to ~$160k for the senior case examiners. My cousin used to work there and was pulling in $80k a year easy in a mid level position, plus the benefits are pretty much the best that you can get in the US.

[The Monkey]

Jack, I think you are at the perfect age and career juncture to pursue your MBA. But I would suggest only getting one from a top-flight program; otherwise, it may be more valuable to you to remain in the workforce and gain experience.

Also, in terms of timing, I think being in a MBA program right now could be beneficial. Bad market and getting worse, but hopefully on the uptick by the time you graduate.

[luvdunhill]

Yeah, dont plan on getting rich in the government, I think.

what makes you say this? Kinda a generic statement. I know people making lots of money in the NSA, for example.

edit: aerius already dinged you on this one..

[The Monkey]

what makes you say this? Kinda a generic statement. I know people making lots of money in the NSA, for example.

edit: aerius already dinged you on this one..

Aren't the NSA folks breaching some sort of NDA by disclosing that to you?

[postjack]

Thanks to all for your thoughtful responses. I've been asking similar questions of people I know in real life, but the internet is such a powerful tool for gathering information, and I greatly respect the opinions and attitudes of the folks on this board. All of your input is greatly, greatly appreciated.

Some responses are below. Please feel free to tell me where I'm wrong or misdirected in any of my comments, I'm just replying off the cuff based on what I currently know about any given topic, which is possibly very little.

First off, with your background in branch banking and your interest in numbers I would recommend that you consider a lateral move to the Finance department of the bank's headquarters, a logical transition assuming you still like the banking environment. Another avenue to consider would be possibly returning to school for your MBA in Finance. Headquarter's fianance groups love to staff themselves with MBAs.

My issue here is that I work shoulder to shoulder with guys who have finance degrees. They are doing the same thing I did when I just had a high school diploma. The career path up from there is just more fucking sales. I should emphasize that I really would enjoy banking if it was about customer service and not scorecard/sales. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, but the amount of finance majors pushing equity lines on a call night has really soured me on finance.

Good luck to you I hope things go your way. I am leaving the office for a meeting all day, if you have further questions feel free to pm me.

Greg

Thanks Greg!

If you really like to work with Tax, I think you'll need something more than a degree, probably CPA?

If I did do the accounting thing the CPA route is definitely possible. A couple of my friends have already done that and I've spoken with them about it. They have love/hate relationships with their jobs, but the money is decent and they agree there are other things to be done with an accounting degree other then public accounting.

My advice is to stay in school and take classes in what interests you until you figure out what really interests you, even if that means going back to academia -- remember, emotions are fickle, you may be having a lull in your affection for your job, but your feelings for it might return, as well.

Good advice, if slightly scary. There is a good masters in liberal arts program at a small Jesuit college here in town catering to working adults like me. I could apply and pursue a concentration in literature, in the hopes of pursuing a PhD or teaching at a local junior college (which think I'd enjoy). I also could pursue a masters in education there, but the thought of dealing with high school kids is not appealing.

While I do love literature, and have always had a knack for writing papers and stringing together several pieces of bullshit to prove some wild thesis much to the delight of my professors, I am unfortunately getting older and looking to choose a field with more stability and job options. When I decided to be an english major I was wasted all the time. It worked out great at the time because I could be wasted all the time. Eventually I majorly fucked up in school/life and had to get sober. That was when I started working at the bank and busting my ass in night classes to finish my degree. So here I am three years later with my degree in hand and completely in love with my life, just not to pleased with where I've ended up career wise. Maybe its just bullshit fear resulting from past transgressions keeping me from going headlong into a career in higher education, or maybe its just good sound realistic thinking.

The advice about an MBA sounds like very good advice and it looks like you could afford it, too. Not sure if you care or not, but it would probably look better on a CV than starting over, too. Although I'm against the CV-craze, it is something to consider. Perhaps you can just pursue another master's degree without doing the whole bachelor's thing again?

Lots of suggestions about an MBA, but I suppose I'd have to get a bachelors in business first. Its something I'll look into. There is a good business school here locally I could attend.

I also agree that accounting isn't particularly intellectually challenging. As part of my masters in economics and finance, I'm taking a few accounting classes (together with accounting majors) because I thought it might be useful, which it is, but I think it's not something you have to dedicate an entire study for. If you're looking for an intellectual challenge, I doubt accounting can provide that as it feels more like memory training at times. Finance is a lot more more interesting, a lot more relevant (but who am I telling that), and it involves more numbers.

I spoke with my Dad about accounting (he was an accounting major but went into business for himself), and he spoke with his accountant about it, and his accountant suggested I get a finance degree and stay in banking. So I guess the grass is always greener.

Having said that, I know that accounting isn't exactly dragon slaying and motorcycle rides, but the work I'm doing now is pretty dull as well. I'd rather have a dull job where I feel slightly more useful, deal with less asshole customers, and get paid more money to do it.

Actually, I don't like finance much for personal reasons, but it's a very challenging field with nearly limitless potential if you're good at it. Perhaps something to consider, especially with your background.

Another finance recommendation. I'll try and drop my biases and give it a closer look.

Stay the fuck away from computers unless you eat, sleep, live, and breathe computers, otherwise, you'll grow to hate it by the time you're a year into your classes. My degree is in Comp Sci, I thought I liked computers, by the time 4th year came around I couldn't wait to graduate and get the fuck away from anything related to the damn things. Job prospects aren't on an upswing either since we're headed into a long & bad recession.

After what I've read in this thread I'll probably scratch computer science off the list. I'll stay an amateur geek, since I have no programming experience.

In terms of accounting, I have a feeling the IRS and FDIC will be in need of a lot of forensics & investigative accountants once the current wave of investment banking & lending fraud starts getting prosecuted. The FDIC's already hiring and once the subpeonas start flying the IRS and FBI will be looking to hire as well.

I read about forensic accounting on the OOH (Occupational Outlook Handbook). It definitely sounds like a cool field.

Go get your MBA and do some consulting work for IBM, Accenture, etc. The work is very interesting and you will never get bored because you're off to the next client before boredom even begins to set in! Of course, you have to 'give your life to the firm' by becoming a road warrior, but if you're single, then that's part of the fun. I still work for one of the big consulting firms, but I don't travel anymore...I work from home. I'm part of an outsourced group that I helped put together that does all the Oracle development and production support for a client company. I've been doing this gig for over 8 years now and still enjoy it. The working from home helps.

I do naturally enjoy training and teaching others, and am open to the idea of travel. Another point for an MBA.

Those are Government Agencies and Government Agencies don't pay didly. He already has a job, he dosen't need another (boring Government Agency) job. If you go to work fo the IRS, you will have to sell all your gear to pay for food.

Yeah, dont plan on getting rich in the government, I think. But they can have good, safe health/benefits packages. Of course you may not care about getting rich, idk.

Don't really care about getting rich. More money is of course nice, but as long as I have enough to sock away the max in my roth (and 401K if still applicable in the future) every year I can survive.

Jack, I think you are at the perfect age and career juncture to pursue your MBA. But I would suggest only getting one from a top-flight program; otherwise, it may be more valuable to you to remain in the workforce and gain experience.

Also, in terms of timing, I think being in a MBA program right now could be beneficial. Bad market and getting worse, but hopefully on the uptick by the time you graduate.

Another strong MBA recommendation! Thanks Vincent.

You've all given me some stuff to chew on. Any other responses are welcome.

[luvdunhill]

Aren't the NSA folks breaching some sort of NDA by disclosing that to you?

nope

[grawk]

They have to lie about what they do (or not discuss it). It's generally discouraged to talk about what they make. But at some point, it becomes obvious, if they're friends.

[deepak]

If you enjoy traveling, I know one of my friends is majoring in foreign business. It's sort of a combined foreign language business degree from what I understand. Didn't sound like there would be much work in it, but he tells me there is. He is already fluent in French and I think he plans to learn Arabic and Chinese. I talk to him on a frequent basis so I can get more specifics if you're interested. He just started at U Maryland this coming semester.

He sort of had a meandering education after high school at a state college that didn't really go anywhere. Then worked two years as a sort of social worker, which was probably some of the most down right depressing work I've ever heard anyone tell me about.

Edited June 28, 2008 by deepak

[tkam]

Just a thought, instead of focusing on finding a career you'll enjoy why not try to pick up a few new hobbies?

[saint.panda]

I'm pretty sure you don't need a business bachelor for an MBA. The requirement is usually some degree plus relevant work experience, which you both have in abundance.

Curious that you say that finance majors end up in sales and customer service. Sounds harsh but maybe it depends on the school they went to, how smart they were to begin with, and, of course, how ambitious they were. 2 guys I knew from physics ended up pursuing their masters in finance and both now work for an investment bank, one doing crazy modelling stuff, and the other in M&A. And despite the mess in financial markets, with the whole craze about compliance, the S&O act, and increased importance of financial reporting, there's always demand for finance people. Then again, there are other fields in business that might be interesting, too, which you maybe haven't thought about. Marketing for example. Nevertheless, according to a recent study by CFO magazine, finance has overtaken marketing to be the most likely route to CEO. Not that it would matter for any of us.