Active vs. Passive speakers?

[fierce_freak]

Which is better in a bang-for-buck sense? Actives really appeal to me, but the inner-"audiophool" contests that passive will always be better quality. Thoughts?

[Jon L]

inner-"audiophool" contests that passive will always be better quality. Thoughts?

Why would you think that? Looking at passive crossovers always amazes me b/c it's a minor miracle any good sound can emanate after all the caps, inductors, and resistors do their damage.

Something like this $25K active ATC 100ASL speakers should be good enough for most, but the vast majority of audiophiles simply will not buy active speakers due to audiophilia amphilia.

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue37/atc_100.htm

So the next "best" thing we go for is actively bi-tri-amped speakers using active crossovers, so we can swap amps according to our audiophilia, but unfortunately, active crossovers can mess up the sound as well, and you lose the critical advantage of getting rid of speaker cables.

[n_maher]

Just buy postjack's 12L's, you know you want to.

Actually, just do it so I can stop looking at them...

[deepak]

.... speakers should be good enough for most, but the vast majority of audiophiles simply will not buy active speakers due to audiophilia amphilia.

...but it...uses dynamic drivers

[humanflyz]

Damn, me wants the ATCs...

[Jon L]

...but it...uses dynamic drivers

Oh, yeah, my ideal would be huge, efficient electrostats with direct-coupled high-voltage tube amps. The old Acoustats actually did this... I wish somebody would make something like that again at a reasonable price, and I'm not talking about something like Martin Logan's new CLX, which uses multiple panels and crossovers

[fierce_freak]

I actually bought humanflyz 12L's (though I haven't really listened to them yet...hopefully after this weekend everything will be conducive to me setting them up).

I was just curious. Thanks for the responses guys

[Dusty Chalk]

Which is better in a bang-for-buck sense?

Actives.

[deepak]

Oh, yeah, my ideal would be huge, efficient electrostats with direct-coupled high-voltage tube amps. The old Acoustats actually did this... I wish somebody would make something like that again at a reasonable price, and I'm not talking about something like Martin Logan's new CLX, which uses multiple panels and crossovers

Hearing electrostatic headphones will ruin you

But I might have a chance to hear the new Sound Lab Majestic this summer, though they obviously aren't active. Nine foot panels :drool:

[humanflyz]

I actually bought humanflyz 12L's (though I haven't really listened to them yet...hopefully after this weekend everything will be conducive to me setting them up).

I was just curious. Thanks for the responses guys

Holy shit, you still haven't listened to them? Didn't I sell them to you like a month ago?

[fierce_freak]

Ha, I hooked them up for a few minutes to make sure they worked, and that's it. I've had a severe lack of time lately, and I had no stands (finally got them in today), cables (got those 2 days ago), or room to put them in (should be remedied this weekend).

It's actually pretty sick when you take into account how much I spend on sound equipment and how little I actually get the chance to listen.

[swt61]

IMO it's completely dependent on the design and quality of the individual speakers in question.

If executed well, the active speakers advantage over passive is that the amps can be custom tailored to the drivers, and many times these active units are bi-amped with very good results. This advantage can be quite large, as I learned in listening to the passive version of my old Paradigms compared to my active version. I listened with several different amps, and the actives won out every time, by a fair margin.

That being said, a poorly executed active speaker not only won't perform as well, but you have no chance at bettering them via rolling amps.

It's actually pretty sick when you take into account how much I spend on sound equipment and how little I actually get the chance to listen.

I think the terminology for that sickness is DIYer.

[fierce_freak]

lol, guilty as charged

[luvdunhill]

Why would you think that? Looking at passive crossovers always amazes me b/c it's a minor miracle any good sound can emanate after all the caps, inductors, and resistors do their damage.

yeah, so instead let's use opamps! yeah!

[Jon L]

yeah, so instead let's use opamps! yeah!

I agree about opamp-based electronic crossovers that are cheaply made, which is why I still like my Bryston active crossover, which uses discrete components only. Even then, I find it to excel only if its gain-match controls are not used. There are others, but, they are all very expensive.

[Tyll Hertsens]

We were all ready to sell a couple of pairs of active speakers; we tested two Genelecs, one Blue Sky, and the NHT M00 active speakers. What we found was that they just didn't measure up to well designed passive speakers with an outboard amp. There's nothing stopping active speakers from sounding as good or better than passives and an amp except the market dynamics me thinks.

It seems to me that most passive speakers are built to deliver as much system synergy and cost savings as possible, in other words it seems to me that active speaker systems are usually built for "bang for the buck" customers. And that means that you're not going to get extremely high quality (expensive) parts, so while the potential is there, the quality improvements possible are not capitalized on 'cuz they're trying to keep the costs down.

There is another level of self-powered speakers that comes from studio demands; these active speakers are quite expensive. The high end Genelecs will cost you $2k. When we compared these to good audiophile mini-monitors we found that they we somewhat disappointing. In this case, it seems to me part of the problem you always get when comparing high-end to pro gear: the pros just kinda don't get it. Pro gear makers do spend a little more on parts than consumer makers ... but not much. They don't really pop for the real expensive parts----well maybe in the digital domain, but I don't think they've really learned their lesson in the analog domain. Anyway, the Genelecs seems somewhat harsh to me. The NHTs were good for the bux but not great.

Bottom line, I think if' you are really trying to set up a really high-end mini-monitor system you are better of with a good high-end bookshelf speaker and a similarly good class-D power amp. Sure, that's exactly what we're selling, but were selling it because that's the solution that seemed to work best when we checked it out.

I think I should add that there are some self-powered speakers that I would guess are competative with passive speakers and amp and that's some of the very high-end pro-stuff. Like these from Harbeth. http://www.harbeth.co.uk/uk/index.php?section=products&page=monitor40.1active&model=Monitor%2040.1%20Active

Not mini-monitors though. Anyway, I did stumble across a few of these very high end self-powered systems, sorry I can't find the one I'm thinking about that had all sorts of DSP crossovers and time alignment adjustability, but some of these active systems are CRAZY complex and expensive. When I looked into the pricing of these systems they didn't seem any less expensive that separate speakers and amps, but they did do somethings that was only possible (DSP crossovers for example) with separates.

[tkam]

The paradigm reference active series speakers were fantastic, it's a shame they were discontinued a few years back.

[Dusty Chalk]

Anyway, I did stumble across a few of these very high end self-powered systems, sorry I can't find the one I'm thinking about that had all sorts of DSP crossovers and time alignment adjustability, but some of these active systems are CRAZY complex and expensive...

Meridian DSP8000?

[fierce_freak]

Thanks for the great reply, Tyll.

[Tyll Hertsens]

Meridian DSP8000?

No. I think it was the Pro arm of Dynaudio: http://www.dynaudioacoustics.com/

But I saw something else that was wickedly DSPed. Digital crossovers, eq, room compensation, ect. The Dynaudio stuff has some of that, but I'm pretty sure there was something else too.

I'd like to hear the Dynaudio gear though.

[Dusty Chalk]

Well, there's the Dynaudio Air series, but I got the impression this wasn't studio monitor stuff, this was home high-fi stuff.

[fierce_freak]

Active or not, I finally got around to seriously listening to my Quad 12L actives in a subpar setup and came away very impressed. There was a little hardness or metallic edge to some vocals (especially with Wilco), but I'm willing to bet that's due to the sub-par setup at the moment (can't wait to put the Buffalo DAC in the system). I'm now considering selling all the headphone amps/gear and just picking up a set of UE-11's for when I need the isolation or lack of disturbing others.

[luvdunhill]

I'm now considering selling all the headphone amps/gear and just picking up a set of UE-11's for when I need the isolation or lack of disturbing others.

[humanflyz]

Active or not, I finally got around to seriously listening to my Quad 12L actives in a subpar setup and came away very impressed. There was a little hardness or metallic edge to some vocals (especially with Wilco), but I'm willing to bet that's due to the sub-par setup at the moment (can't wait to put the Buffalo DAC in the system). I'm now considering selling all the headphone amps/gear and just picking up a set of UE-11's for when I need the isolation or lack of disturbing others.

Hey, those are the reasons why I got into speakers

I'm definitely re-buying those once I settle in DC.

[fierce_freak]

I know...eep!

You know how it goes, though...I say I'm going to get rid of the headphone stuff, but can I really?