How Risky Is It To Ship From So. Cal To Another Country?

[Augsburger]

I need a little Head Case advice and attitude.

I received a pm yesterday from the other site regarding the EC/SS I put up for sale a month ago. The buyer is new and has three posts and no feedback to his credit. The prospective buyer has offered to pick up postage and PayPal costs and wants me to ship the EC/SS to Israel. I live in Southern California and the thought of shipping something outside of North America has me a little concerned about the amp ever arriving even if insured or the buyer claiming the amp never arrived. I see substantial risk of the buyer claiming he never received the package and requesting a refund. Over the years and after reading so many horror stories I have come to the conclusion than with foreign transactions such as this one, the buyer has all the leverage and the seller is at the buyers mercy. I see red flags. Am I being paranoid?

Thanks for your comments.

Greg

[thrice]

There are ways to ship internationally that allow you to track and see delivery confirmation. But if you do not feel comfortable with shipping the unit there or with the potential buyer's lack of feedback then perhaps you should respectfully decline.

If they are willing to pay for an insurable/trackable shipping method and perhaps ask them to provide feedback from somewhere else (eBay, Audiogon...etc.) would that assuage your fears? If not then perhaps you should hold out for a US buyer.

EDIT: If you do go ahead with the sale, save everything, PMs, receipts...etc. That way if a Paypal claim is filed against you, you have the documentation to defend that you are not at fault.

[n_maher]

I'd ask if they have ebay feedback. Just about everyone has it these days and you could use the contact form to verify it's authenticity (i've done this before with new users).

Otherwise, it is a gamble and I'm not sure I'd do it.

[Iron_Dreamer]

I've never had a problem to shipping to various foreign countries, but I've also only done it for folks with established feedback, and I've never shipped to the middle east. I'd be pretty wary of that offer, and ask the seller if he has any other feedback, or something you can rely on, or otherwise decline.

[Guest sacd lover]

Paranoid .... no.

Dont do it!

I need a little Head Case advice and attitude.

I received a pm yesterday from the other site regarding the EC/SS I put up for sale a month ago. The buyer is new and has three posts and no feedback to his credit. The prospective buyer has offered to pick up postage and PayPal costs and wants me to ship the EC/SS to Israel. I live in Southern California and the thought of shipping something outside of North America has me a little concerned about the amp ever arriving even if insured or the buyer claiming the amp never arrived. I see substantial risk of the buyer claiming he never received the package and requesting a refund. Over the years and after reading so many horror stories I have come to the conclusion than with foreign transactions such as this one, the buyer has all the leverage and the seller is at the buyers mercy. I see red flags. Am I being paranoid?

Thanks for your comments.

Greg

[909]

i vote no unless the buyer is willing to send US currency in the form of a money order, cashier's check or something similar.

why...

Paypal only provides seller protection when a seller ships to a (verified) confirmed shipping address. Currently Paypal only confirms addresses in the USA, Canada, and the UK. Shipping to unconfirmed addresses poses greater risk such as not only losing the item, but Paypal obligating you to refund the money as well. Because of this I only ship to confirmed addresses.

Paypal also has shipping requirement, which are usually cost prohibitive shipping overseas. Any item needs to have a tracking number viewable online, without one the buyer can claim they never got it and are entitled to a full refund. Certified mail or sign receipt requested or anything similar is not adequate proof, if not viewable online and as such Paypal will side with the buyer. Online tracking for overseas shipments is very expensive even with the least expensive carrier to ship overseas, USPS. And if the item is over $250 not only do you need tracking, but a signature upon delivery that must also be viewable online. Such a service is limited to Express International Mail and is very costly. Plus USPS International insurance isn't cheap either. I rarely sell overseas and never accept Paypal for local pick-up.

[postjack]

EMS will ship fine to Israel, but that's beside the point here. No point at all dealing with a non established member if its makes you nervous.

[Augsburger]

Wow, thanks for the timely responses. I always struggle with my soft side wishing to help others out with this hobby/obsession and occasionally live to regret my decision. Interestingly, all of your responses were qualified yeses, meaning "I might do it but I would also take these precautions" no one said flat out "you paranoid fool of course it is safe". So my decision is made and I will respectfully decline. I don't need the dough that bad to take another chance even after reading all those CanJam posts which have me wishing.

Thanks for your counsel.

[en480c4]

I live in Southern California and the thought of shipping something outside of North America has me a little concerned about the amp ever arriving...

Well, seeing that you're in SoCal, I'd advise no. If only you were in NorCal...

[Augsburger]

Why? So. Cal is closer to Israel than Nor. Cal so postage should be cheaper.

[postjack]

Wow, thanks for the timely responses. I always struggle with my soft side wishing to help others out with this hobby/obsession and occasionally live to regret my decision. Interestingly, all of your responses were qualified yeses, meaning "I might do it but I would also take these precautions" no one said flat out "you paranoid fool of course it is safe". So my decision is made and I will respectfully decline. I don't need the dough that bad to take another chance even after reading all those CanJam posts which have me wishing.

Thanks for your counsel.

Good decision!

[krrm]

Tracking is important! Several years ago, before Ipods where big (right after the stone age), I bought a Neuros mp3 player, and since where ever I bought it from didn't ship to Norway, I used a company here that gives me an American address, and resends the package. Luckily the package was tracked and weighted during the whole trip, because all I got was an empty box. Due to the tracking info it was easy to see that that content was stolen somewhere between New Jersey and Norway (by Pirates of the Atlantic, I guess). I was refundend by the reshipping company, but without the weighting part I guess I would have a hard time to convince someone that the package was empty.

If there is such a reshipper that serves Israel that might be a bit safer since a third party is responsible for the shipping from USA to the destination.

Now if I could get an American credit card to go with my NJ address, I could buy (digital) music from hdtracks and Amazon...

[Spiug31]

Find out if the prospective buyer is on friendly terms with an established head-fier in Israel, it might be possible to do the international shipment and confirmation of delivery with them (photographic proof of receipt could help), then the buyer could pick up the amp locally once it arrived.

just a thought: not something I've tried

[mirumu]

Just as an aside, living in New Zealand as I do, I make heavy use of international shipping all the time. Usually it's smaller things like CDs, DVDs, vinyl etc but I've also DVD players, amps, headphones, computer parts, game consoles, large transformers and various other large/heavy objects sent from various countries including the US. I've never had any significant problems arise during transit. I've only once had to make an insurance claim on a parcel and ironically that was a local New Zealand delivery.

I realize you're more concerned about dealing with an unknown person with little feedback, but thought it was worth mentioning that international shipping is not something in itself to be especially concerned about. Certainly people like me greatly appreciate those willing to partake in a bit of international trading.

[dc]

I realize you're more concerned about dealing with an unknown person with little feedback, but thought it was worth mentioning that international shipping is not something in itself to be especially concerned about. Certainly people like me greatly appreciate those willing to partake in a bit of international trading.

x2 Without people willing to ship international, I would be doomed to pay local pricing or worse, not have access to good gear at all.

Believe it or not, I've generally had the same or faster delivery times from the USA/UK than from the other side of Australia.

In this case, if you do go ahead with the sale, make sure it's fully traceable. Buyer pays shipping obviously and if he doesn't agree to paying the premium for shipping then I would respectfully decline.

[Augsburger]

Mirumu, dc, great suggestions and thank you for your time. Initially, I would always consider a foreign buyer because I agree foreign audiophiles often get the short end of the stick. If the buyer was established on HeadFi or even better, established here on Head Case, I would make the extra effort. But he is not and he only has three Ebay feedback comments so unfortunately this won't work for me. I will keep all of your suggestions filed in the event any foreign buyer in the future wants to buy any of my humble gear.