The Orthodynamic Thread

[Kabeer]

I never thought I'd ever end up with a 30, 40 and 50v2. Lucky guy indeed! I don't hold out much hope of ever getting a 50v1 but I think what I have is pretty awesome anyway

Oh Smeggy you lucky boy .

I am interested to know, how are the capabilities of the T30 driver in reproducing large deep bass in comparison to the NADRP18? (I am under the assumption the NAD and its brothers are probably the best ortho in this respect).

And wow that T30 mod looks beautiful. I never liked the original housing that much. Gotta say though, not a huge fan of that headband .

I got the Yamaha orthos from Steve this afternoon. I'm very impressed by these headphones, even in stock form

They look in lovely condition!

Its all about tuning the damping on them. You will lose some bass quantity, but should increase the 'impact' of the bass as it gets tighter. Iv not actually tried tuning the YH-1 yet, but if you want to retain bass, maybe my progressive donut damping method might* work...

Also, on hf, Billink has made his own damping scheme on the YH-1, that makes him love them for classical music (and he owns an O2!).

[luvdunhill]

They were $1500 a year ago. I dunno what they go for now.

sometime next year I might be interested in building the TakeT amp

[spritzer]

sometime next year I might be interested in building the TakeT amp

...or you could just run it off the BH.

[luvdunhill]

...or you could just run it off the BH.

I think the proposed modification to the KGSS might be a better match for the load. I suppose only Kevin can comment as he's simulated it.

[spritzer]

I think the proposed modification to the KGSS might be a better match for the load. I suppose only Kevin can comment as he's simulated it.

I'm sure that you are right as (if I remember correctly) the maximum voltage swing of the H2 is 200v but they require a lot of current instead.

[deepak]

I added the two thinner discs of felt that swt61 included. To use markl's language I lost some "bass juice" but the transient response did improve. I'm not sure if I prefer this change or not, perhaps with a more powerful amp I'd like this combination more.

I'm just comparing them to my SR-007 mk1 now, and the Stax have more bass quantity and depth and still beat them out in detail.

[Smeggy]

The Yamas are likely never going to worry the O2, however, they can still sound very nice. I had the same thoughts with the T30, do I damp the crap out of them for speed and detail or do I let them breathe and wallow in that wonderous full sound and great bass. I kept them a little underdamped and went for the more luxurious sound. I already have stats and K1000, I don't need to replicate those sounds and what the Fostex does well, it does exceptionally well.

[swt61]

Well said. I don't think the point is to try to replicate the stat sound, which we know is an effort in futility.

The point is to get some of those characteristics plus some very musical, lush, full sound with the addition of strong bass extension at a fraction of the price of the big stats.

To my mind the Ortho sound is a great meld of some of the stat and dynamic signatures. What it does well, it does very well, and at a price that's still a relative bargain.

[deepak]

To my mind the Ortho sound is a great meld of some of the stat and dynamic signatures. What it does well, it does very well, and at a price that's still a relative bargain.

Yup full agreement with you here. Which is why I'm surprised most of the reports I've read (including wualta's roundup) said they need modding.

[Duggeh]

I think that I havent actually used the O2, H2 or AMT since early in November now that I think about it. All been Orthodome #3.

Maybe its time to liquidate a bit to put toward speaker-fi...

[Smeggy]

Same thing going on here, my more 'expensive' cans aren't getting much of a look in. I love the organic sounds of the various orthos here and modding is purely a matter of taste and preference. Some absolutely need work, anything with an SFI style driver in it for example because, generally, they suck without serious work. The Yamas and Fostexes may benefit from some modding depending on what kind of sound you're looking for. Modding isn't always a necessity in my view, but it is fun

[Kabeer]

Yup full agreement with you here. Which is why I'm surprised most of the reports I've read (including wualta's roundup) said they need modding.

In stock form does it really have any form of decent trebles?

Im v.suprised to hear it was balanced in stock form (I am yet to even hear my YH-1 stock yet btw).

Does anyone else agree with this btw? It didnt seem to me Steve was saying it was balanced in stock form, but I could be mistaken.

I dont think I have heard a single ortho that had a balanced spectrum in stock form (Save the Aiwas stock scheme, but then there were still way too many resonances, it also turns out the Wharfedales stock scheme is a bit sucky).

If you are happy in stock form even with resonances, but find the treble slightly lacking. Why not keep it stock form and try a reflex dot or two?

If ya find it fine completely in stock form even in comparison to a O2....well I cant wait till I get mine in my hands

[JBLoudG20]

which we know is an effort in futility fertility.

I'll contribute to the cause!

[swt61]

In stock form does it really have any form of decent trebles?

Im v.suprised to hear it was balanced in stock form (I am yet to even hear my YH-1 stock yet btw).

Does anyone else agree with this btw? It didnt seem to me Steve was saying it was balanced in stock form, but I could be mistaken.

I dont think I have heard a single ortho that had a balanced spectrum in stock form (Save the Aiwas stock scheme, but then there were still way too many resonances, it also turns out the Wharfedales stock scheme is a bit sucky).

If you are happy in stock form even with resonances, but find the treble slightly lacking. Why not keep it stock form and try a reflex dot or two?

If ya find it fine completely in stock form even in comparison to a O2....well I cant wait till I get mine in my hands

I happen to think the HP-1 and YH-1 are the best Yamahas in stock form except for the YH-1000. To me the YH-100 absolutely needs modding, but has more to gain from modding than all the other Yamaha drivers.

That said I still prefer a modded HP-1/YH-1 to stock.

I'll contribute to the cause!

Thanks Jay, I knew we could count on you for a sperm donation.

[Guest sacd lover]

I have a stock and modded YH-1. I am smitten with both. The stock pair has a weightier and more impactful bass, great mids and a smooth, slightly recessed treble. The Modded phone = damping + recable loses both bass weight and bass impact but gains a more open and alive sound with the biggest gains more clarity, more neutrality and more overall coherency.

If I decided to change the modded pair I would lose some damping to get back just a little bass. Like sft61 said, the stock YH-1 is very good as is. If I had to pick a fav it would be the modded pair. But, the stock pair is very satisfying and I dont think I am going to mod this second YH-1 .... although the more I listen the more I appreciate the modded YH-1s slightly light bass light and otherwise near perfect balance.

I also have a pair of HP-3s now and these definitely need damping. The bass is way overblown. But the mids are great and the treble seems very smooth and non-fatiguing. I also had a YH-2 and after the damping and recable the bass was to damped and the treble was to edgy. The bass I could live with but the treble totally bugged me. I think the problem was the recable was to strident. I am damping the HP-3 and skipping the recable.

[Kabeer]

Ahh thanks guys. I guess It will be interesting to hear the YH-1 then.

The HP-3 (and its variants) all sound bad in stock form to me, and need modding. But F3d seemed to enjoy his in stock form.

[faust3d]

I had both stock and modded YH-1 and I sold stock. They are nice stock, but sound a bit muddy and unfocused. Proper modding makes them sound clean and tight with very good and fast bass. You loose a bit of bass quantity but quality is what you gain.

By the way the only ortho that, to my ears, that has a bit of that SR-007 signature is my modded T50RPv2 (new T50 with latest pads and cotton and felt mods). T50RPv2 has this uncanny ability to pull out a lot of details and sound very resolving while still being warm and a bit bassy. The sad things is that there seems to be a lot of variation in how T50RPs sound, so getting the correct version is the key here.

[wualta]

The HP/YH-1 is a persuasive headphone. I've recommended it as a starting point for the curious orthonewbie for that reason. Many people who've listened to it for the first time, even at length, say "Nice headphone. Don't see what all the fuss is about, but it sounds fine." and it does, although if you've been on the stat conga line for half your life, it's apparent sooner or later that the HP/YH-1 is mellow and gently rolled off in the treble, from something like 1kHz on up. In other words, the response is more or less tilted from the peak in the bass. Everything's gradual and smooth and your ear is persuaded that this is a plausible presentation.

You could happily listen to it in stock form and it would simply be installed in your headphone menagerie on a Steve-crafted headphone rack next to the HD 600. You still don't see what the fuss is about, but life is good. Until one day you realize that transient response, especially in the bass, is poor and bass detail is lacking. Damping untilts the response, tightens the bass, and lets more of the treble emerge. Once the response curve is flattened out, the treble droop becomes much more apparent, but there's a fix for that too.

The choice is, happily, yours. One of the funnest things about this type of headphone is the ability to make it sound "right" in a variety of ways. My own opinion is that you don't really lose bass quantity when damping's applied, but the mids and treble do come up and the "wet" bass tightens and dries up somewhat. Subjectively, that can sound like less bass. But if you like the stock sound, that's perfectly fine too.

The fuss, though, is about what you can pry from these headphones with simple materials (which most dynamic 'phones already have). There's a lot of performance asleep for the last 30 years in these 'phones.

[luvdunhill]

My limited experience with orthos can be summed up as follows:

if you:

A.) want to like an electrostat but keep trying to make it sound like a dynamic headphone without success

B.) think the SR-007 is "dark"

C.) like the Jade

then you should try some orthos.

[mypasswordis]

The HP/YH-1 is a persuasive headphone. I've recommended it as a starting point for the curious orthonewbie for that reason. Many people who've listened to it for the first time, even at length, say "Nice headphone. Don't see what all the fuss is about, but it sounds fine." and it does, although if you've been on the stat conga line for half your life, it's apparent sooner or later that the HP/YH-1 is mellow and gently rolled off in the treble, from something like 1kHz on up. In other words, the response is more or less tilted from the peak in the bass. Everything's gradual and smooth and your ear is persuaded that this is a plausible presentation.

You could happily listen to it in stock form and it would simply be installed in your headphone menagerie on a Steve-crafted headphone rack next to the HD 600. You still don't see what the fuss is about, but life is good. Until one day you realize that transient response, especially in the bass, is poor and bass detail is lacking. Damping untilts the response, tightens the bass, and lets more of the treble emerge. Once the response curve is flattened out, the treble droop becomes much more apparent, but there's a fix for that too.

The choice is, happily, yours. One of the funnest things about this type of headphone is the ability to make it sound "right" in a variety of ways. My own opinion is that you don't really lose bass quantity when damping's applied, but the mids and treble do come up and the "wet" bass tightens and dries up somewhat. Subjectively, that can sound like less bass. But if you like the stock sound, that's perfectly fine too.

The fuss, though, is about what you can pry from these headphones with simple materials (which most dynamic 'phones already have). There's a lot of performance asleep for the last 30 years in these 'phones.

I'm just going to quote this great post for truth and say it applies to all (most?) orthos, just in slightly differing ways.

I've never heard a YH/HP1 but I did hear a YH100 and slightly modded it. The bass was quite woolly with a dull thump to the attack. After modding it became less woolly and more tuneful with sharper attack. I guess the YH/HP1 doesn't have enough bass to begin with, although I'm more inclined to agree with wualta's assessment of evening out of frequency response making perceived bass less, albeit much, much better.

[deepak]

Thanks for the analysis wualta. I think I just need to live with them in modded form a bit longer, or try a different amp.

Stock I felt it does have the right amount, but a bit undetailed and "dynamic"-ish.

I had both stock and modded YH-1 and I sold stock. They are nice stock, but sound a bit muddy and unfocused. Proper modding makes them sound clean and tight with very good and fast bass. You loose a bit of bass quantity but quality is what you gain.

By the way the only ortho that, to my ears, that has a bit of that SR-007 signature is my modded T50RPv2 (new T50 with latest pads and cotton and felt mods). T50RPv2 has this uncanny ability to pull out a lot of details and sound very resolving while still being warm and a bit bassy. The sad things is that there seems to be a lot of variation in how T50RPs sound, so getting the correct version is the key here.

Faust do you think you'll make the NY meet? I'll know for sure this afternoon.

I'll bring the HP-1 if I do.

Edited December 11, 2008 by deepak

[spritzer]

My limited experience with orthos can be summed up as follows:

if you:

A.) want to like an electrostat but keep trying to make it sound like a dynamic headphone without success

B.) think the SR-007 is "dark"

C.) like the Jade

then you should try some orthos.

[Smeggy]

If you are happy in stock form even with resonances, but find the treble slightly lacking. Why not keep it stock form and try a reflex dot or two?

If ya find it fine completely in stock form even in comparison to a O2....well I cant wait till I get mine in my hands

Ack!

Dammit, I turtally fergot those were still here... I gotta get a new brain fitted one of these days.

[Kabeer]

Ack!

Dammit, I turtally fergot those were still here... I gotta get a new brain fitted one of these days.

Lol, no worries. I'll wait till it piggybacks onto another package.

Btw, dBel is doing some great work on SFI's and YH-100 cups as well, you should get in contact with him and pool your knowledge . You are the bastions of the new ortho age.

[swt61]

Thanks for the analysis wualta. I think I just need to live with them in modded form a bit longer, or try a different amp.

Stock I felt it does have the right amount, but a bit undetailed and "dynamic"-ish.

Faust do you think you'll make the NY meet? I'll know for sure this afternoon.

I'll bring the HP-1 if I do.

If you get the chance to try it on...

PPA V1 or V2

M