Cinemag SUTs

[Torpedo]

It definitely loves S curved tonearms and detachable headshells.

Especially if you load those detachable shells with some lead and silicon to increase tonearm's effective mass over the 20grs range J shaped arms also work incredibly well, and were it a 12" arm... Most of the B&W sound becomes quite colorist, which is not the same as colored

[postjack]

Especially if you load those detachable shells with some lead and silicon to increase tonearm's effective mass over the 20grs range J shaped arms also work incredibly well, and were it a 12" arm... Most of the B&W sound becomes quite colorist, which is not the same as colored

Well I did have to use a Sumiko headshell to get my overhang where I wanted it to be (I used an arc protractor that uses a Baerwald alignment), and this significantly added to the weight, so much so that I had to use the Technics counterweight to get the VTF right.

[Torpedo]

Do you have an approximate idea on what's the current eff. weight your tonearm has now? If you're already on the 25 grs range then you're done and probably listening the DL-103 at its best -tonearm wise-. Were you under that weight, just try a bit more

[deepak]

Well you know my answer. I'd go for the Cinemags. Supposedly they do have a great synergy with DL-103 (I have no point of comparison, all I've heard is my Cinemags), and if you go DIY they'd be cheap as shit.

The DL-103 is THE classic cartridge. With me, you, and Chuck spinning one, we'll have a regular FOTM on our hands.

You're welcome mate. This vinyl thing has too many variables to tweak and can become a nightmare hehehe. For an affordable DIY project the Lundhals can be just OK, however getting that Denon on Ebay -or any other when it came out- could be interesting, quite affordable and "good enough". Not sure how much would cost you building a SUT using some Lundahls, but probably not much cheaper.

Rgrds

Thanks guys. I think I'm going to go with the Cinemag CMQEE-3440A. I think they're around $100-120 a pair, with the Lundahls around $180. And the Lundahls are best done with the PCB mounting, whereas the Cinemags just need a simple clamp.

And I've been communicating with a DIY guy on SH and he likes the DL-103 and Altec Peerless, but says the Cinemags are exceptional and perform very nicely.

I think I'll upgrade my MMF-5 before starting the SUTs. No fotm since this won't be anytime soon, I've been really busy with work.

[luvdunhill]

I decided I'm probably going to get the .25mv version of the DL-103, so I guess I'm in the market for a SUT as well

Any other suggestions? The Cinemag looks like a great deal now, but I want to do more reading on the Lundahls. Without the kit, the Lundahls are very reasonably priced as well...

deepak:

nah, just get an Xono. It will handle down to 0.1mV fine. Remember, the specs of the Xono are at maximum output which is 20v (!). That being said, if I had to go the SUT route, I'd go with the CineMag.

Torpedo:

Just FYI, S&B will not sell direct to DIYers anymore. Also, Bent Audio is using the Slagel units now and are going to be offering a line of modules for DIY use. The resistive relay attenuators look very nice, and will be the upscale competition to the likes Twisted Pear Audio and Dantimax. I'd expect the new items to be only their website any day now (ooh, some already are!)

[Torpedo]

deepak:

nah, just get an Xono. It will handle down to 0.1mV fine. Remember, the specs of the Xono are at maximum output which is 20v (!). That being said, if I had to go the SUT route, I'd go with the CineMag.

Torpedo:

Just FYI, S&B will not sell direct to DIYers anymore. Also, Bent Audio is using the Slagel units now and are going to be offering a line of modules for DIY use. The resistive relay attenuators look very nice, and will be the upscale competition to the likes Twisted Pear Audio and Dantimax. I'd expect the new items to be only their website any day now (ooh, some already are!)

Thanks for the update. Probably S&B decided to earn the big bucks selling their trannies through their doughter company Music First and to selected companies like EAR. I hate when companies get that greedy.

Good news abut Bent Audio. I have no references of Slagel. Any experience?

[deepak]

deepak:

nah, just get an Xono. It will handle down to 0.1mV fine. Remember, the specs of the Xono are at maximum output which is 20v (!). That being said, if I had to go the SUT route, I'd go with the CineMag.

A DIY Xono or Pass built? PL built would be $2000-2500 used, a bit overkill for my setup

Maybe when I'm an attending I'll pick up a Xono

[aerius]

Good news abut Bent Audio. I have no references of Slagel. Any experience?

Slagle. As in Dave Slagle. He makes good stuff and does custom orders. You can order his transformers from intact audio

[luvdunhill]

A DIY Xono or Pass built? PL built would be $2000-2500 used, a bit overkill for my setup

Maybe when I'm an attending I'll pick up a Xono

I'd buy an Ono and "update it". The circuits are very, very similar and the difference are well documented (by me).

[aerius]

A DIY Xono or Pass built? PL built would be $2000-2500 used, a bit overkill for my setup

Maybe when I'm an attending I'll pick up a Xono

Nah, get someone to build you the Vacuum State FVP5 (PDF file). Or go nuts and build the fully balanced version on the Vacuum State schematics page.

[luvdunhill]

60 Step Naked Vishay S102 resistor modules (as used in our TAP resistor Pre-amps).....$260

Those look like reed relays perhaps?

[luvdunhill]

Nah, get someone to build you the Vacuum State FVP5 (PDF file). Or go nuts and build the fully balanced version on the Vacuum State schematics page.

only 60dB gain? For many, that's not enough gain for a LOMC, not to mention something in the 0.1mV range. The Xono with 76dB gain and for example the Klyne phono stages at 66dB+ gain are more suitable if one wants to avoid transformers all together.

[aerius]

only 60dB gain? For many, that's not enough gain for a LOMC, not to mention something in the 0.1mV range. The Xono with 76dB gain and for example the Klyne phono stages at 66dB+ gain are more suitable if one wants to avoid transformers all together.

60dB in the phono section, another 15dB in the preamp section. I've heard one and it has more than enough gain for a ~0.25mV MC cartridge. But I can see how it could be marginal depending on the gain structure of the rest of the amplification chain and the efficiency of the speakers.

[Torpedo]

Slagle. As in Dave Slagle. He makes good stuff and does custom orders. You can order his transformers from intact audio

Thanks, still hadn't heard of him. Interesting stuff for the DIYers.

[postjack]

Do you have an approximate idea on what's the current eff. weight your tonearm has now? If you're already on the 25 grs range then you're done and probably listening the DL-103 at its best -tonearm wise-. Were you under that weight, just try a bit more

I'll have to try and calculate this to see how I'm doing, thanks for the tip.