Tube buffers..

[Smeggy]

So, tube buffers.

I've read numerous opines over the years about how great/bleh tube buffers are and wondered who here has ever played with them and what you think. Are they the shit or is it just a phony way of adding some tube distortion in a way pleasing to some. From what people are reporting it seems like they can make a middling system better but can also mess up a better one. It's all very confusing to my pea-like brain, however it does sound mildly interesting.

[dc]

I think a lot of tube buffers benefit comes from their impedance matching

ie. ultra high impedance to the source, low impedance to the amp

that way sources with output stages that have trouble with heavy loads don't have to struggle so much

that is my understanding of it.

oh and the tube flavour is pleasing to some.

[spritzer]

I bought a bunch of the original Musical Fidelity units dirt cheap and the short answer is that they do a lot more harm then good or rather they only harm the signal. The build quality is the classic MF, cheap and nasty, so there is no way it can improve the quality of the signal. It's been many years since i got rid of the last one but I do remember is dulled the system down and made the midrange more prominent while rounding off the rest. Bass was boomy and I lost a lot of treble. I rank it with crap like Virtual Dynamics cables and other such tone controls for deaf people who should just have bought B&O in the first place.

DC is right that is can provide impedance matching but that's really why you have a preamp...

[kevin gilmore]

So you take a modern source with an output impedance of 50 to 200 ohms, add a tube

buffer and the result is something with a minimum output impedance of 2200 ohms, and

probably more. Yep sure is going to add that tube distortion and frequency response to

what was a pretty clean signal.

[Dusty Chalk]

From what people are reporting it seems like they can make a middling system better but can also mess up a better one.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. They'll improve a system if you put it between two components that aren't well impedance-matched -- as long as the "additional component in the chain" problem doesn't kick in, but in anything else, they'll be ...well... an additional component in a chain, which can only take away from clarity.

[Smeggy]

Pretty much what I was expecting and confirmation of my suspicions.

[Augsburger]

Confirmed my suspicions as well, but what do I know I am just another gullible customer taken to the cleaners by a "High End" audio store. This is one of the many unfortunate reasons why I no longer frequent audio retailers, I have found them long on sales pitches and short on any worth while advice. Bummer, can't seem to trust anyone nowadays.

[aardvark baguette]

Confirmed my suspicions as well, but what do I know I am just another gullible customer taken to the cleaners by a "High End" audio store. This is one of the many unfortunate reasons why I no longer frequent audio retailers, I have found them long on sales pitches and short on any worth while advice. Bummer, can't seem to trust anyone nowadays.

Use the folks on the forum for advice; not dealers.

The forum folks aren't getting a commission for helping you, and seem to know just as much as the dealers, (my impression).

I've never been to a high end dealer for audio, but having gone to Tweeter for car audio purposes, the dealers weren't able to tell me anything I didn't already know, about several subwoofers I was evaluating.

[Smeggy]

That's why I was asking here rather than other places which are more prone to teh dark voodoos. I guess in some situations it could help.

[Jon L]

The only similar device I would be interested in is Eastern Electric BBA, which is more of impedance matching device with variable gain. Very interesting concept...

http://www.dagogo.com/EasternElectricBBA.html

[Augsburger]

Use the folks on the forum for advice; not dealers.

The forum folks aren't getting a commission for helping you, and seem to know just as much as the dealers, (my impression).

I've never been to a high end dealer for audio, but having gone to Tweeter for car audio purposes, the dealers weren't able to tell me anything I didn't already know, about several subwoofers I was evaluating.

I agree and that is what I have been doing for the past three years, but sometimes you have to learn lessons the hard way. I have gained more valuable information from forums than any retailer. But even on forums like the other place, you have to really analyze what and by whom you are being advised. In fact, the only thing learned from retailers is that how well I got snowed buy a guy with a store front.

[dc]

The only similar device I would be interested in is Eastern Electric BBA, which is more of impedance matching device with variable gain. Very interesting concept...

http://www.dagogo.com/EasternElectricBBA.html

doesn't that makes this a pre-amp then?

[n_maher]

doesn't that makes this a pre-amp then?

Yes, it's all a semantic argument really.

[dc]

just checked out the link, and it's described as the "Eastern Electric MiniMax BBA preamplifier"

[catscratch]

My only experience so far was with the ubiquitous MF X10 V3 tube buffer, and for even the lower mid-fi sources I've got lying around it does nothing but degrade the signal. The midrange is brought out a bit, and there's more added tube bloom, but everything else suffers, especially the imaging. When I'm trying to run a semi-decent rig off an mp3 player shoving the X10 in there can act as a grain/noise/general nastiness filter but you have to be working with some really shitty sources in order for this to be an improvement.

My advice is to stay away from this particular unit. I don't have any experience with other units though.