Political discussion, including, but not limited to, the Iraq war and Bush II

[aardvark baguette]

We didn't attack unprovoked? And to think, I thought that was exactly what we did do. Like they say, you learn something new everyday.

Saddam Hussein was required to, among other things: allow international weapons inspectors to oversee the destruction of his weapons of mass destruction; not develop new weapons of mass destruction; destroy all of his ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 kilometers; stop support for terrorism and prevent terrorist organizations from operating within Iraq; help account for missing Kuwaitis and other individuals; return stolen Kuwaiti property and bear financial liability for damage from the Gulf War; and he was required to end his repression of the Iraqi people. Saddam Hussein has repeatedly violated each of the following resolutions:

[ojnihs]

no such thing, if by democrat you mean the modern Democratic Party. Libertarianism is diametrically opposed to the political philosophy of the DP. it is equivalent to saying you are a radical reactionary, using conventional political terminology.

well that's the thing. i believe in and agree with many things that have to do with libertarianism, especially when it comes to the economy, especially taxation. when it comes to social issues, i definitely lean towards the left. thus i just put the two together.

i'm very, very not interested in politics.

[aardvark baguette]

Many people dont agree with all the views of a party.

Its in our nature to pigeonhole ourselves

[Voltron]

My liberal clap-trap from a couple pages ago was surpassed by the speed of this thread. Oh well. For now I will just say Fuck Bush and Fuck This Stupid, Stupid Pointless War. Keep up the good work, Mike.

[ojnihs]

does the American left really believe in social liberalism? perhaps you should call yourself a Classical Liberal, that would be more in line with what you said.

that sounds more like it, as you can probably tell, politics isn't something that i really pay attention to.

btw, if you are really interested in learning about the reasons behind World War 2, Sherer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich is a good starting point (though only a starting point, despite its reputation amongst non historians).

thanks, i'll definitely check it out. world war 2 has definitely been interest of mine that i've kept on the back burner due to pre-med and the like.

[ojnihs]

it's a long read, just to prepare you.

thanks for the warning, guess i should pick it up during the summer, should have some downtown in the lab

[aardvark baguette]

Reks

My understanding (or lack thereof) of Hitler was similar to what you said before, Reks. He was hellbent on uniting the Germans, having sustained great economic blows, and needed a conduit, which ended up being the rhetoric about the 'superior race' and how they were special, yadda yadda. Then to gain and hold power, he needed to invade countries, absorb their wealth and materials, and invade another to sustain. Basically use the continents as hosts, like a parasite.

Before I go further, my history is rather rusty and hazy.

[aardvark baguette]

it's a long read, just to prepare you.

I'd like to read your thesis down the line when you're finished

[Voltron]

i'm not sure that loud rhetoric is good work, on any side... \

I was having dinner, so anybody countering the Bush apologist is good enough for me.

And maybe you were a little more detached earlier but you didn't seem to quibble over the idiocy of this war.

[aardvark baguette]

that is a tremendously oversimplified, and thus structurally unsound, few.

what you are describing is simply the historically prevalent opposition of two politically opposed groups. that there are insignificant similarities between the two is a measure of how limited the methods and choices of political actions are, not a real description of the means or goals of either group. to compare Bush to al-Qa'ida is absurd (and i'm not Bush supporter). the fact that al-Qa'ida is not a real prime mover discredits the comparison, before anything else.

Damn, I missed this post somehow.

Nicely done

[ojnihs]

I'd like to read your thesis down the line when you're finished

same here.

and i'm done with this thread, politics is boring.

[aardvark baguette]

Thats a long time

Good luck.

[tyrion]

same here.

and i'm done with this thread, politics is boring.

I love this stuff, mostly because it's too important to ignore, which I think is where this discussion all began.

[aardvark baguette]

I love this stuff, mostly because it's too important to ignore, which I think is where this discussion all began.

Yeah, I was dismissive.

I tend to be that way, because I know how my thoughts and opinions are generally excepted.

Its easier to just keep it to myself.

[aardvark baguette]

yes, way too long. two bachelor's (including 3 minors) and half a master's later, i'm about burnt out.

Damn.

I majored in visual art (graphic design) and debated getting a minor in English or Animation, but said fuck it towards the end: I'd had enough. And I went for 4.5 years.

[aardvark baguette]

lol, a math person I am not

[Jon L]

well that's the thing. i believe in and agree with many things that have to do with libertarianism, especially when it comes to the economy, especially taxation. when it comes to social issues, i definitely lean towards the left. thus i just put the two together.

I type this already regretting it.

But I feel I need to say it b/c I hear the above statement so frequently, i.e. I'm a fiscal conservative (similar to libertarian on economy) but a social liberal.

The two are not compatible with each other b/c most social liberalism (welfare, free healthcare, etc) requires tons of money, which cannot help but come from taxes of some sort, which is the F word for libertarians.

[tyrion]

it simply means that i don't see a lot of in-depth political and historical commentary in the debate. my reaction might simply be because i'm a historian by training.

I understood what you meant just not sure what to say in response. I don't type very fast and with the speed that this discussion took, it's difficult to say everything I might have wanted to had we been sitting around drinking a couple of beers and had all night.

[aardvark baguette]

i can get by, though i admit that i haven't used calculus, trigonometry or any kind of geometry (and barely any algebra) since high school, and i doubt i could do it now. astronomy is all calculus, unfortunately.

It is also like acid and oil on a madmans face, lesser birds on the four winds and silver scrapes in may.

[ojnihs]

I type this already regretting it.

But I feel I need to say it b/c I hear the above statement so frequently, i.e. I'm a fiscal conservative (similar to libertarian on economy) but a social liberal.

The two are not compatible with each other b/c most social liberalism (welfare, free healthcare, etc) requires tons of money, which cannot help but come from taxes of some sort, which is the F word for libertarians.

well i agree with it, that's why i made it a point to say that i'm quite "conservative" when it comes to money and the economy. i'm NOT for universal healthcare, and yeah, yeah, i'm a medical student, but sorry, there's plenty of evidence to show that it doesn't work. if i work hard to make the money that i'm going to make, i'd like to keep most of it, hence my "libertarian" tendencies.

[aardvark baguette]

if i work hard to make the money that i'm going to make, i'd like to keep most of it...

That wasnt so hard, was it

(saying that, not your job)

[Dusty Chalk]

It is also like acid and oil on a madmans face, lesser birds on the four winds and silver scrapes in may.

Blue Oyster Cult!

Actually, I hate most candidates also (I wish Ron Paul had a chance). Doesn't mean I'm not going to vote for the lesser of two evils, but doesn't mean I can't call a spade a spade -- it'll be the lesser of two evils that I'll be voting for, nothing more.

[ojnihs]

That wasnt so hard, was it

(saying that, not your job)

yeah, not hard at all. this might not sound nice and dandy for us all here, but if i'm going to work my ass off to become a doctor, and sacrifice all those years to get to the point where i'm making shit loads of money, i want what i earn, not what i earn minus shit that i have to give to others. again, this might offend some of you here, but that's my mindset at least. aardvark, i think i basically said what you said earlier.

[aardvark baguette]

A government that can give you everything can take everything away from you.

[aardvark baguette]

Blue Oyster Cult!