electrostatic sound

[Duggeh]

I think he had the Headphile 404.

I forget who it is that has the two DIY Lambda woodies. Jazz I think.

[n_maher]

Speaking of which, didn't thrice used to have a woodied Lambda? Oh, paging thrice, paging thrice.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f10/sold-woodied-stax-lambda-pro-headphile-250415/

[spritzer]

I think he had the Headphile 404.

I forget who it is that has the two DIY Lambda woodies. Jazz I think.

Elephas has the open woodied Lambda Pro and I did own the closed back version of it but it got stuck in customs and returned to Larry. I'm really glad though since they must sound like drap all closed up like that...

[mirumu]

I had an SRM-313 with my SR-404 which might not have been the best amp for them (minya who stopped posting on Headfi told me his KGSS improved the SR-404, but he liked the SRM313/SR-404 so who knows). But I really didn't like the upper midrange emphasis on them. And I didn't think they were very tonally accurate. Also the presentation was just front to back, no depth or layering to the sound. I can accept that though, not a big deal given their cost.

Which is why I'm not too enthusiastic about the 4070, but I'd certainly like to hear them. I wouldn't be going out of my way to hear them given how much I like the SR-007.

I own the 404s and largely agree with your assessment of them. I enjoy them okay but they sound rather artificial given their traits in combination. Giving them the woody treatment is on the long term plan. I also have spent some time with the 4070 and really they sound very different to the 404s despite sharing the same drivers. Spritizer is right in saying the "monitor" tag is justified. They don't share the upper midrange emphasis and their tonality is excellent in the upper bass and midrange. They aren't Omega 2s (The O2 bass and headstage is far superior IMHO), but they're still a big step up from the 404 in my book.

[spritzer]

After you've spent some time with a 4070 you see bass in a very different light. How deep, textured and tuneful it can be without excessive bloom is a revelation. They are IMO a bit sterile for regular music listening but as a monitoring tool there is nothing that can compete.

[Dusty Chalk]

The electrostatic sound, to me, is a certain "sheen" to the music, like a slight lump in the high frequency response. Not sure at what frequency it peaks, but I think it's just a little bit lower than the presence region.

And, like tubes, it doesn't exist in all electrostatics. Just as you can have a very tubey tube amp (Wheatfield), or a very dry tube amp (Singlepower [mine, anyway -- not all of them]), you can have an electrostatic rig that has that signature sound, but you can -- through tuning -- get rid of it as well.

[Jon L]

The electrostats are more detailed and fast but the soundstage and the naturallness of acoustic instruments and vocals are much better at k701, it's overall presentation is much more live-like. I don't know what to think...

What amp are you using with Omega and K701? I do have K701 which I haven't touched since last year. Something is definitely not right somewhere if acoustic instruments and vocals sound better via K701..

[catscratch]

I've heard the SR-404 with many different amps (313, 007t, McAlister) and it always had its upper midrange coloration. It also always had a somewhat strident lower treble and a somewhat diffuse character to its sound, which hurts its layering abilities quite a bit. Off the McAlister it had very good bass impact that wasn't there with the 313 and 007, and it had a more forward, rather Grado-like quality to its sound, but it was also far too bright.

I really liked it with about 25% of my music and thought it was ok with another 50% of my music, but when my K340 spanked it for $200, off a $200 amp, it was time for it to go.

In terms of electrostatic vs. dynamic sound - 'stats are much much faster, so any kind of grain or minute distortion present with dynamic cans just isn't there, unless it's caused by the rest of your system. 'Stat detail extends throughout the frequency spectrum, and everything, be it treble, midrange, or bass is resolved into its component parts, as opposed to dynamics, which tend to be detailed up top but get progressively less resolving as you go down the frequency range. Electrostatic bass is especially much more detailed than dynamic bass. At the same time, 'stats don't have the tactile impact of good dynamics, though they can have some impact, and this is evident not just in the bass but everywhere else as well. They just don't displace as much air as dynamics period. In most applications, dynamics do sound more lively.

I've left stats but I'm going to be coming back to them, despite having a dynamic rig that has many of the virtues of the electrostatic sound. I doubt I'll be giving up this rig any time soon, but we'll see how it gets on in the face of quality electrostatic rivals (O2, EH1.2B, 4070). Dynamics just sound like a system playing back the music, while with 'stats, the system is often left behind and you have nothing but the music. In a dynamic, you can feel the drivers moving, you can visualize the thrum of the voice coils and almost feel the signal moving through the wires (ok cat, put down the pipe...) but in a 'stat music just seems to appear ethereally out of thin air with no sound signature or evidence of a system to hold it back, and it takes you a while to lock on to what the system is doing, sonically speaking. But at the same time, listening to a 'stat seems to be more of a cerebral exercise, while dynamics do tend to get you more emotionally involved - though I'd wager that a properly set up electrostatic system that can put out some actual impact will reverse that trend somewhat.

[mulveling]

catscratch,

That was a very eloquent and informative perspective on the debate

[brat]

What amp are you using with Omega and K701? I do have K701 which I haven't touched since last year. Something is definitely not right somewhere if acoustic instruments and vocals sound better via K701..

I use a modded Corda Prehead 1 and Cavalli Lavell Mk1 ( not mine ).

The k701 need A LOT of burn-in ( at least 200-300 hours ) and then they become totally different headphone - faster than any other dynamic, open, with GREAT soundtsage, absolutely effortless and naturall. I'll never sell my k701. It will remain my reference for dynamic headphones ( well I've never listened to R10 or Qualia ).

I hope the burn-in will do the same to the Omegas as it has done to k701

[PFKMan23]

The k701 need A LOT of burn-in ( at least 200-300 hours ) and then they become totally different headphone - faster than any other dynamic, open, with GREAT soundtsage, absolutely effortless and naturall.

[humanflyz]

I use a modded Corda Prehead 1 and Cavalli Lavell Mk1 ( not mine ).

The k701 need A LOT of burn-in ( at least 200-300 hours ) and then they become totally different headphone - faster than any other dynamic, open, with GREAT soundtsage, absolutely effortless and naturall. I'll never sell my k701. It will remain my reference for dynamic headphones ( well I've never listened to R10 or Qualia ).

I hope the burn-in will do the same to the Omegas as it has done to k701

If you like the K701s better than the O2s at this stage, I don't think you'll ever like the O2s, no matter how long you burn them in, because to me, the O2s pretty much walk all over the K701s in the technical things. So it just sounds to me like you don't like the O2's sound, which no amount of burn-in is going to change.

[Dusty Chalk]

[brat]

If you like the K701s better than the O2s at this stage, I don't think you'll ever like the O2s, no matter how long you burn them in, because to me, the O2s pretty much walk all over the K701s in the technical things. So it just sounds to me like you don't like the O2's sound, which no amount of burn-in is going to change.

As i said in another thread maybe it's not a dislike but the great expectations for a huge difference which I had on the electrostats

Now I see their advandages - faster sound, better instrument/voice definition, a lack of "decay" of sounds ( I've never supposed such a thing exists ). I begin to appreciate them. And I like the advantages they give me.

There remained two things that embarrass me: A slight hiss in the upper frequencies ( briefly 10-11kHz? ) and a hump in the upper midrange ( upper range of female vocals, piano or clarinet for example) but there is a possibility of a source problem...

[Iron_Dreamer]

The 4070 is in no way better then the SR-007 but you simply have to hear it. They make the all other phones sound colored as Stax meant it when they put those monitor badges on the earcups.

Indeed, the 4070 is a mean, lean, music analysis device....and I love it!

[Nanoha]

As i said in another thread maybe it's not a dislike but the great expectations for a huge difference which I had on the electrostats

I had some great expectations for electrostats and arrived at an even larger difference than I had expected.

It's important to take note that each electrostat sounds different just like each dynamic sounds different.

[Elephas]

The 4070 is the most "neutral-sounding" and accurate headphone I've heard. But I don't like it as much as several other headphones, including some dynamics.

Team Electrostatic:

[Salt Peanuts]

The 4070 is the most "neutral-sounding" and accurate headphone I've heard. But I don't like it as much as several other headphones, including some dynamics.

Team Electrostatic:

What, no SR-007MkII yet?

[Duggeh]

I think that Elephas shows a clear lack of dedication.

[Smeggy]

A clear lack of SR-X is what I'm seeing here

[spritzer]

Looks like 1/3 of my collection but truth be told I'm glad to be selling off parts of it. All you need is the Sr-Omega and SR-007 and the rest is just for show...

A clear lack of SR-X is what I'm seeing here

I really should make some SR-X Pro for him.

[deepak]

All you need is the Sr-Omega and SR-007 and the rest is just for show...

:'(

[spritzer]

:'(

I waited 4 years for mine so I fully understand where you come from. The fact that I got mine at a really good price only made the waiting all that better...

[Duggeh]

Pah! In 4 years I could make my own pair using nought but cling film, bunsen mesh, double sided sticky tape and coathangers.

[Salt Peanuts]

Pah! In 4 years I could make my own pair using nought but cling film, bunsen mesh, double sided sticky tape and coathangers.