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Posted

I took another trip to the local audio store so I could drool over the Shanling T-200 & T-300 CD players in person, but the main purpose was to check out small floorstanders & largish bookshelf speakers. I wanted to see if there was anything that could match the Living Voice Avatar at a lower cost. The summary is unfortunately not, but I did find a couple nice surprises. Keep in mind that my standard for good sound for small floorstanders is the Living Voice Avatar OBX-R, which is the tweaked out version of the Avatar.

Anyway, first speaker up was the Elac FS 207 Limited Edition. These are German speakers with some kind of ribbon midrange/tweeter thingy. Well, the only good thing I could say about them is they had very extended highs, everything else was mediocre to sucky. The bass sucked, there was a hump in the 80-100Hz region and pretty much nothing above & below it. On basslines I could hear the notes fade in & peak as they hit the hump and then fade out again as the notes continued up or down the scale, same thing with piano, and drums, and any instrument with bass. The midrange was flat & dry, and this is out of the Shanling T-200 tube outputs and with a tube amp, and the highs were sibilant. Soundstaging & imaging was nothing to write home about either. In short, a very unsatisfactory suck-ass speaker. I hated it.

Next was the JAS Audio Orsa speaker, a small bookshelf with a ribbon tweeter & Dynaudio woofer. This speaker served to re-affirm my hatred for Dynaudio drivers. The highs were pretty good, fast, clear, extended, unfortunately with a slight touch of sibilance which could probably be tuned out with tube rolls. And that's all the good I can say about it.

Midrange & bass completely sucked. Veiled, undynamic, sterile, slow, it just sucked. Vocals sounded like someone had put a blanket in front of the microphone, drums had no impact at all, and piano was completely unlistenable. With piano, from the midrange up you hear a "plink" as the key is struck and that's it, no sound from the piano's soundboard or body, no resonances, nothing, just a sterile "plink" that might as well have come from a $50 Radio Shack keyboard.

The bass was just overly tight & completely lacking in body. Drums have absolutely no energy, electric bass barely registers above the background noise, and the low notes on a grand piano are blended into a mushy mess. Slow, dead, lack of detail, absolutely fucking awful.

Next up was the Oskar Aulos, featuring the Heil Tweeter, which I've heard of but never heard before. Holy crap is this tweeter ever good, very clean, detailed, and extended, and not a trace of sibilance, very smooth & easy to listen to. Unfortunately, the rest of the speaker, though good, doesn't quite match up to the tweeter and as a result there's a bit of a discontinuity in the frequency range. Midrange & treble is good, but the bass doesn't keep up in speed & detail, and sounds a bit too boomy & slow.

My standard test for bass speed & detail is "In the Springtime of his Voodoo" by Tori Amos, only the very best gear can cleanly separate the low notes of the grand piano and keep them from blending into each other, and on top of that keep the electric bass in balance and not blending into the piano. As expected, the low piano notes blended, but at least the bass stayed separate. Tone wasn't bad, a bit too thick & boomy in some places which didn't help with the separation either, but at least it's on the warm side instead of being cold & sterile, I could live with that.

Midrange was pretty sweet, balanced on the warm side, male vocals had nice weight & depth to them and Jeff Martin of The Tea Party doesn't sound castrated like he does on some speakers. Next up was "Plenty" by Sarah McLachlan off a promo CD, somewhat similar to the Freedom Sessions version but better. Multi-tracked vocals from all over the soundstage, fun for checking imaging capabilities. Sarah sounded pretty sweet, not the most detailed I've heard since some of the subtle shifts in her voice were lost but still quite satisfying. Nice soundstage & imaging too, especially in the highs. I'm liking those Heil tweeters.

Put on "Space Dog" by Tori Amos to check for dynamics, did pretty well here. Not the hardest or fastest bass impact I've heard, but it has good body & weight to the sound. Drums on all my music finally sound complete, and I finally have a bass groove. Overall, a darn good speaker, especially given the cost of about $2400 CDN.

Last speaker of the day was the Aurum Cantus Leisure 3 CA speaker, definitely the prettiest of the bunch. Soundwise, pretty similar to the Oskars, but the highs weren't as clean and the bass was a bit tighter & more detailed. It's another ribbon tweeter design, but the highs get a bit sibilant, especially noticeable with any song off Tori's "Little Earthquakes" album. Like the Oskar, it's on the warm side, but it is a bit closer to neutral than the former, and sounds clearer from the lower midrange on down. Basically, the Oskar has the edge in highs and the Aurum's a bit better on lows, and are pretty close in the midrange.

Overall it's a tough choice between the Oskar & the Aurum Cantus, the former has slightly better sound but god is it ever fugly. The Aurum Cantus is damn pretty but I'm not sure if I can deal with the slight sibilance over the long term.

Posted

CD player for the Orsa was the Shanling T-200 using the tube outputs, and amps were the Vasant_K Final Edition and then the Shanling STP-80 integrated amp. It was marginally better with the tube amp but I felt it still completely sucked, and the shop owner agreed. The shop guy said he's tried it with a bunch of other amps and that's just how the speaker sounds, he doesn't like it but one of the other employees does and so do some customers. I think it's made for fans of dead lifeless studio monitors, or idiots who don't know better. Did I mention I hate Dynaudio? The only speaker of theirs I can stand is the Special 25, and even then I don't like it much anymore.

Posted

I think it's made for fans of dead lifeless studio monitors, or idiots who don't know better.

Actually, I am a fan of lifelessness in audio equipment.
Did I mention I hate Dynaudio? The only speaker of theirs I can stand is the Special 25, and even then I don't like it much anymore.

That's the one I have. And I still like it. Have you heard any of their other Confidence series? Big difference is the tweeter -- the Confidence tweeters are the Esotar, whereas many of their other models have the Esotec tweeters.
Posted

Have you heard any of their other Confidence series? Big difference is the tweeter -- the Confidence tweeters are the Esotar, whereas many of their other models have the Esotec tweeters.

I heard the C2, wasn't much impressed, it was smooth & had decent detail, but it still had a lack of dynamics and had to be played quite loud to sound decent. In terms of overall balance, I find the Special 25 is still better and doesn't suffer from the veil & lack of dynamics as much, though it gives up some low bass.

Also heard half the Focus & Audience series, those were pretty much unlistenable. As a fan of the Grado sound, the Dynaudio sound just ain't gonna work for me, it's too lifeless & sleep inducing.

Posted

I've heard very polarizing opinions about dynaudio drivers, many people love the merlin speakers which use them, but just as many can't stand them. Maybe I'll hear them myself someday. :P

Posted

I heard the C2, wasn't much impressed, it was smooth & had decent detail, but it still had a lack of dynamics and had to be played quite loud to sound decent. In terms of overall balance, I find the Special 25 is still better and doesn't suffer from the veil & lack of dynamics as much, though it gives up some low bass.

I had a Musical Fidelity A300^CR power amp driving those things, and they weren't suffering in the low bass department at all.
Posted

I had a Musical Fidelity A300^CR power amp driving those things, and they weren't suffering in the low bass department at all.

Compared to other bookshelfs the Special 25 is definitely not lacking in bass, the only other bookshelf I know of that has as much bass is the Totem Mani-2, but compared to the floorstanding C2 there's a small but noticeable loss. Not much I have to admit, it just doesn't fill the room the way a large floorstander does, nor does it have that truly effortless feel in the lows.

Posted

No, that's what I'm saying -- I have a nice sub that went down to 23 Hz or so, and I didn't feel I needed it -- I truly consider it a fullrange speaker, despite it not being a floorstander. I ran it without a sub. But then, I was listening in near field, so...take that into account...

Posted

My friend who owns the Special 25 has a room that's almost big enough for B&W 801's which he owned before getting the 25's. The C2 dealer's demo room was smaller in area but had a higher ceiling, overall I'm guessing the dealer's room was maybe 10-20% smaller in volume.

Anyways, to me fullrange means the speaker equivalent of the Grado PS-1, which means big dinner plate sized woofers to move a ton of air. Examples would be the B&W 802, 801 & 800, Totem Wind or Shaman, something along those lines.

Smaller floorstanders such as the B&W 803 & 804, Totem Hawk or Forest, the Living Voice Avatar & OBX-R would not be considered fullrange by me. Same thing with every bookshelf speaker I've heard to date.

Posted

My friend who owns the Special 25 has a room that's almost big enough for B&W 801's which he owned before getting the 25's. The C2 dealer's demo room was smaller in area but had a higher ceiling, overall I'm guessing the dealer's room was maybe 10-20% smaller in volume.

Anyways, to me fullrange means the speaker equivalent of the Grado PS-1, which means big dinner plate sized woofers to move a ton of air. Examples would be the B&W 802, 801 & 800, Totem Wind or Shaman, something along those lines.

Smaller floorstanders such as the B&W 803 & 804, Totem Hawk or Forest, the Living Voice Avatar & OBX-R would not be considered fullrange by me. Same thing with every bookshelf speaker I've heard to date.

I don't think you judge a speaker's frequency response on its apparent ability to reproduce frequency, I think you should judge it on its actual ability to reproduce frequency -- sorta like not judging a book by its cover. I'm just saying -- I didn't hear anything missing when I had mine. I will tell you it was in a small room, but -- I've also heard floorstanders with less bass. And they went pretty loud (pleasantly so). Those woofers are relatively huge (especially for a non-floorstander) -- about the size of a dinner plate, yes. They're not "bookshelves" per se, as they wouldn't fit on the average bookshelf (also, the port's on the back).
Posted
I don't think you judge a speaker's frequency response on its apparent ability to reproduce frequency, I think you should judge it on its actual ability to reproduce frequency -- sorta like not judging a book by its cover. I'm just saying -- I didn't hear anything missing when I had mine. I will tell you it was in a small room, but -- I've also heard floorstanders with less bass. And they went pretty loud (pleasantly so). Those woofers are relatively huge (especially for a non-floorstander) -- about the size of a dinner plate, yes. They're not "bookshelves" per se, as they wouldn't fit on the average bookshelf (also, the port's on the back).

I'm not judging by apparent ability, I've actually heard all the speakers mentioned except the B&W 800, and going by the specs in the catalogue it's somewhere between the 801 & 802 in terms of deep bass. The Special 25 does have very strong & deep bass for a bookshelf, but there's no way it matches the 15" woofers on the 801, which I do admit were a bit overpowering in my friend's room which is part of why he sold them, the wife being the other...

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