AudioGD Posted June 12, 2023 Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 There has been very tranparent and clear pictures of the 32000 USD base model of Warwick Aperio. Sonic wise, while it doesn't have the stage height of Hifiman Shang SR and maybe even the seperation of Stax X9000 driven by T2/ Grand Cayman with TOTL source, it does have the best low extension as well as the most normal shape of stage. While I feel TOTL AIO electrostactic systems as HE-1 and Aperio have better transducer and headphones (or most current after market electrostactic headphones are problematic here and there ), they might be limited by the geometery to accomodate the best amplification. Looking inside of the chasis, while I won't judge the components just based on the size in that many great source components are also small as Weiss DAC (but it harbours at least two nicely sealed totorial transformer linear power supply even to my non engineer eyes), however I am kind of shocked at how could Warwick Accoustic include good power supply and pre-applification section that is " a novel class A circuit that can output very high voltages with prodigious current" in that limited space, along with amp, streamer and dac, that all seem to be outstanding to my ears personally speaking. Subjectively, I think Aperio is superb sounding especially its cripy and well extended lows, yet I did notice occasionally it sounds as it is about to lose control especially in the highs and treble region, which I assume might be related to the amplication. Any professinal thoughts on this super duper high end design in a small chassis? Well it might be unfair to critize the size of Aperio considering the power amplifier of HE-1 is housed inside of their headphone earcups, lol, which I thnk could explain the lack of voltage and power as I have to turn amolst three'o clock to make the HE-1 fairly loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kung Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 From warwick official website, I think their aperio has a high voltage bias (1800Vdc) driver, which is much higher than the 1350Vdc of their lower models. it means that the output voltage of the amplifier no longer needs to be as high as the traditional electrostatic system, therefore does not require too much power and heat dissipation. In addition, for the built-in amplifier of HE1, I guess it may be the cool-mosfet version with reduced gain of the hev70 vas since Sennheiser applied for a patent(DE4329991A1) similar to the design of the HE1 in 1993. I heard HE1 once at the exhibition, and I also think that the potentiometer should be set to the position of about 2-3 o’clock to get loud enough, indicating the input sensitivity voltage can be a bit high based on the two-stage amplifier's gain setting being too low...🤷♂️ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 I have a couple of the Sonoma Model 1 sets so I've been looking into making an amp for them. They are pretty much worthless at this point so can be picked up cheap but yeah, single ended and the driver design is all kinds of stupid. The bias is 1350V and the amp runs on a single 450V rail so the bias is doing most of the work here. The bias is actually on the drive signal with the AC signal super imposed on it through a 2000V cap. Why did they do this? It was supposed to be cheap but sold for 5K$... yeah. They are also very non linear so the internal DSP is doing a lot of work. I did listen to the Bravura in NYC and what a fucking turd. The drivers are close to identical so all of the same issues as the older Sonoma. You can hear it's a tailored sound from the DSP as they try to fix the mess the drivers are making. None of this makes any sense... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioGD Posted June 13, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 On 6/13/2023 at 2:15 AM, Kung said: From warwick official website, I think their aperio has a high voltage bias (1800Vdc) driver, which is much higher than the 1350Vdc of their lower models. it means that the output voltage of the amplifier no longer needs to be as high as the traditional electrostatic system, therefore does not require too much power and heat dissipation. In addition, for the built-in amplifier of HE1, I guess it may be the cool-mosfet version with reduced gain of the hev70 vas since Sennheiser applied for a patent(DE4329991A1) similar to the design of the HE1 in 1993. I heard HE1 once at the exhibition, and I also think that the potentiometer should be set to the position of about 2-3 o’clock to get loud enough, indicating the input sensitivity voltage can be a bit high based on the two-stage amplifier's gain setting being too low...🤷♂️ Nice input, yet the chasis does run hot maybe due to the fact that the preamp is class A? There are fans and some strip shaped vent on the top of the chasis for heat dissipation though. It seems as both these two summit fi AIO designs have adopted unorthodoxical and different approaches to avoid the use of traditional power amplification propably in order to keep the size more compact? Yet they do both seem to put a lot of effort in the pre-stage, the link that has been underestimated in headfi, compared to their take on the power amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioGD Posted June 13, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 The picture of Aperio strikes me more of a source component with switching power supply rather than an amplification structure. While there has been debate over the low heat and high efficient Switching Power Supply vs. Linear Power Supply, the later has been widely held as superior sonic wise. Even many top ceilling source component as Aurender W20 has upgaded its SPS to LPS in their newer W20SE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioGD Posted June 13, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 11 hours ago, spritzer said: I have a couple of the Sonoma Model 1 sets so I've been looking into making an amp for them. They are pretty much worthless at this point so can be picked up cheap but yeah, single ended and the driver design is all kinds of stupid. The bias is 1350V and the amp runs on a single 450V rail so the bias is doing most of the work here. The bias is actually on the drive signal with the AC signal super imposed on it through a 2000V cap. Why did they do this? It was supposed to be cheap but sold for 5K$... yeah. They are also very non linear so the internal DSP is doing a lot of work. I did listen to the Bravura in NYC and what a fucking turd. The drivers are close to identical so all of the same issues as the older Sonoma. You can hear it's a tailored sound from the DSP as they try to fix the mess the drivers are making. None of this makes any sense... Their flagship Aperio is balanced discrete design Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted June 13, 2023 Report Share Posted June 13, 2023 I know but same shit driver design and amplifier. What are the odds this isn't shit as well? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioGD Posted June 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2023 Even for its source segment, I read that "the signal won't pass the internal cables, panel switch nor potentimeter.", thus I can't help getting curious how does Aperio transmit the signals? Edit: I found the answer gold plated silver contacts and premium signal relay. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioGD Posted June 16, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2023 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted June 16, 2023 Report Share Posted June 16, 2023 Why are you trying to shill this trash? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torpedo Posted June 16, 2023 Report Share Posted June 16, 2023 Because he believes he's cleverer than you, Kevin and the mods here 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin gilmore Posted June 16, 2023 Report Share Posted June 16, 2023 fact is that the warwick headphones are single ended and not stax compatible. basically a beveridge speaker done by someone with no brain. this and the high end sennheiser are proprietary technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioGD Posted June 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2023 The point is I’m not hyping at all please read the my posts. I was just curious and try to understand. I also stated many doubts and weak points of these AIO. I only quoted their side of story in only ONE post which freak you out! my personal preference is HE-1> T2(own) Grand Cayman/ Aperio> Viva(owned) > Woo ( owned)> BHSE( owned)> Carbon( owned) Most people buying these “trash”, trashed Carbon before upgrades! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckledragger Posted June 17, 2023 Report Share Posted June 17, 2023 24 minutes ago, AudioGD said: blah blah I ate the whole jar of paste all by myself blah I heard that if the Stax Mafia were real, that they use old Krell amps as cement shoes. Good thing for you they don't exist, huh? 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioGD Posted June 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2023 Also to answer the question, Im selling nothing, what are you selling btw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeymad Posted June 17, 2023 Report Share Posted June 17, 2023 Okay AudioGodDelusion, I don't think that you are really contributing anything anymore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioGD Posted June 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2023 You have no idea and certainly don’t deserve what I could contribute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torpedo Posted June 17, 2023 Report Share Posted June 17, 2023 On that you are right, we don't deserve your presence in our community 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioGD Posted June 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2023 The marketing is low life and despicable which is just to call EVERY SINGLE competitor with original designs garbage even without listening while charging three times more than other builds. This is not healthy community, it is a poisonous clan, allowing only one worship and one biased opinion with even no courage for normal conversation and discussion. The market and majority of buying power will let the sound make the judgement, not your hatred and pitiful language, nor your single perspectives. There is no solely one correct design, but pros and cons. The diversity won’t be intimidated by group attacks by your brainless followers. All your lies will end when people actually listen. They might be silent to avoid the meaningless conflicts with the sour, pathetic and brainwashed followers, but the silent ones are the real community, the majority, and real buying power. I am HE-1, I am Aperio, I am Woo, I am Viva, I am Shangrila… I admire and appreciate what they each does well. I’m me, holding my one stance and trusting my own ears and user experience. I’m just me, but I’m also the community, so I won’t be threatened by the bullying and harassment from you biased followers. If the owners and buyers found these trash you mentioned sound better than your only current designs, it simply shows that your standard is narrow minded and short sighted and you simply couldn’t see what others doing well, which in turn will only hamper your growth and already limited designs over the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Sawyers Posted June 17, 2023 Report Share Posted June 17, 2023 15 minutes ago, AudioGD said: You have no idea and certainly don’t deserve what I could contribute 🤡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted June 17, 2023 Report Share Posted June 17, 2023 The thing is, we are not swayed by how much something costs. There is no correlation between price and performance. Let's put it this way, the Sennheiser HE-1 is ok... nothing more than that and would be elevated greatly by using other amps. The drivers are just a further development of the HE90 so they can be easily converted to Stax standard. I'm not going to pay 30K$ for a new set just to throw away the amp though. The Hifiman Shangri-la is just awful and that was off the BHSE. Couple that with bad build quality, cheap materials and that they will all die... yeah fucking trash. I tried the Apperio at Harrods the last time I was in London and with everything unfamiliar, a sales gremlin breathing down my neck and a short audition... I didn't want to comment on it but it is very similar to the Sonoma/Bravura so not high end by any means. I'd rather get a Stax L500Mk2 with a good amp... As for Viva, Woo Audio, LTA or what ever trash there is... go ahead and throw your money away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grawk Posted June 17, 2023 Report Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 hours ago, AudioGD said: You have no idea and certainly don’t deserve what I could contribute stop reporting posts. if you don’t like how you’re treated here you’re free to leave. 2 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopstretch Posted June 17, 2023 Report Share Posted June 17, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skullguise Posted June 17, 2023 Report Share Posted June 17, 2023 10 hours ago, AudioGD said: This is not healthy community, it is a poisonous clan, allowing only one worship and one biased opinion with even no courage for normal conversation and discussion. Moderators: can we please change the site name to poisonousclan.com? Kthxbye 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted June 17, 2023 Report Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 hours ago, skullguise said: Moderators: can we please change the site name to poisonousclan.com? Kthxbye More an admin decision than moderator, just to be appropriately pedantic. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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