REL

[postjack]

So it looks like I absolutely must get a REL sub to fill out the low low frequencies in my speaker system. The model I am immediately drawn towards is the T1, and I'd prefer to find one used.

Does anyone have any suggestions or guidance they would like to offer in regards to these subs?

EDIT: See also this thread

[Dusty Chalk]

Yeah -- what is it you're trying to accomplish again? I know you mentioned in that other thread that you weren't entirely happy with your 22Ls' bottom end, but what about it are you trying to fix?

Personally, I wouldn't want a sub that you didn't have a continuous phase control. Now, I realize it's not technically a phase control, but rather a micro-delay, but it accomplishes what I want to accomplish. Does the T1 have this? I know the following have it: Sunfire, SVS, Krell; which is why I'm leaning towards SVS and Sunfire (can't afford the Krell; don't know if I need it's unearthliness).

Also, I suppose if your receiver has that kind of thing, or if you have some kind of outboard device to do so, then you don't need it, and with the talent here, I'm sure someone could put something together for you. Or possibly some sort of 3rd-party device.

It was only with that feature in my 2.1 system, the sub truly disappeared.

[tyrion]

So it looks like I absolutely must get a REL sub to fill out the low low frequencies in my speaker system. The model I am immediately drawn towards is the T1, and I'd prefer to find one used.

Does anyone have any suggestions or guidance they would like to offer in regards to these subs?

I had the T2 when I had the Compact Hemps. It's a nice sub and did the little bit I needed it to do. They don't pop up on Audiogon too often. I know a dealer and may be able to save a bit off retail.

[Dusty Chalk]

I'll wander off and do some research on them.

Can you use them with headphones?

[tkam]

yeah honestly you should take a look at the SVS subs. their performance is nearly impossible to beat for the price.

[postjack]

yeah honestly you should take a look at the SVS subs. their performance is nearly impossible to beat for the price.

Really what I think I'm looking for is just deeper bass. thats what excited me about the REL subs that I found out about only hours ago via Reks' linkage: they are made to compliment full size speakers. I am happy with the sound coming from my Quads, but when listening to vinyl especially, I crave to hear those low, deep, visceral notes that I know lie deep within those grooves. I should have made this clear in the OP.

[Dusty Chalk]

I should have made this clear in the OP.

I added a link in your original post that hopefully might make this clearer.

[tkam]

i can't believe you guys are falling for the REL marketing. sure looks like regular subs to me.

postjack with any sub including the REL or ones from SVS you not only get very fine control over the bass volume output but also cross-over frequencies. what i'd recommend is setting the crossover on the sub to be just above the point where you speakers run out of juice and then adjust the volume to your liking.

[Dusty Chalk]

Yeah, don't think of it as boom, think of it as overhead.

[tkam]

ah even worse than going by marketing going by the thoughts of uneducated end-users and paid professionals, awesome

[postjack]

postjack with any sub including the REL or ones from SVS you not only get very fine control over the bass volume output but also cross-over frequencies. what i'd recommend is setting the crossover on the sub to be just above the point where you speakers run out of juice and then adjust the volume to your liking.

Thanks for the tip, I'll definitely look into the SVS subs then.

[Dusty Chalk]

I agree with Tkam -- doesn't appear to be anything special, and doesn't have that valuable (to me) phase control.

I say, go SVS.

[Dusty Chalk]

Do you have a REL, Mr. I-love-my-Thiels?

[Dusty Chalk]

Exactly.

[tyrion]

I agree with Tkam -- doesn't appear to be anything special, and doesn't have that valuable (to me) phase control.

I say, go SVS.

T1 has a phase switch. Not sure if that's what you are referring to.

[Dusty Chalk]

T1 has a phase switch. Not sure if that's what you are referring to.

No, phase switch I found to be inadequate. MHO, I think subwoofers need to have continuous phase controls to seemlessly blend in with the speakers at that crucial crossover region. When I had the following setup:

MSB Link DAC III -> MF A3 pre -> Sunfire True Sub Jr. -> MF A3 power -> Spendor S3/5

...I didn't find the sub truly disappeared until I put it between the pre and the power and dialed in the exact right value. I realize it's not really a phase control any more, but rather a micro-delay, but IMHO, that's preferable. Despite what most would perceive as a radical difference between the Sunfire and the Spendors -- and the fact that I was listening to the Spendors in nearfield, and the sub was a good yard away on my right -- the sub absolutely disappeared.

[n_maher]

I've always been told that unless you have complete control of subwoofer placement in your room you'd best be getting 2 to make sure that you can level match and not have directional bass. With that in mind, if I had the desire I'd be looking at Outlaw's LFM-2. Compact package, plenty of extension (in my book) and affordable enough so that I could run twins. Doesn't have continuous phase adjustment but has 0-180 switch which has been enough in my experience.

[luvdunhill]

I owned a REL Strata II sub for a while, 'cause everyone said it was the best sub to pair with my Maggies.... It was supposedly fast enough to keep up with the 'planars... well, that was a load of crap, and when I actually bothered to trust my ears, I found an excellent match... a pair of Vandersteen 2Wq. Just listen to a few, buy and sell (then buy and sell) ... repeat until satisfied.

[tyrion]

Those Quads are rated to go down to 30hz, do you really need to go beyond that for music? Or is it that you don't feel they are going that low? How big is the room they are in? I'm not hearing what you are hearing but those speakers in a small to medium sized room should do the trick, I would think. If not, you can't be looking to fill in much more low end with a sub, so why not go with something less expensive and see if it does the trick. You can always move up the later. Also, could it be your amp that holding you back?

[luvdunhill]

Those Quads are rated to go down to 30hz, do you really need to go beyond that for music?

interesting point. So, the whole reason I got interested in headphones was that my Magnepans had some roll-off around this point. The thing I finally noticed after doing some research was that it wasn't the ~30hz roll-off that was the problem, it was the large room suck-outs at 100Hz and 50Hz due to room modes (and for some reason lack of standard room gain in these regions). Until you analyze the room interactions it's tough to say. However, I would caution you to solely look at frequency response.

Once I fixed these things (square rooms are the devil) then I noticed there was some information missing and the sub really did help things. Music? Perhaps not at this point, but definitely auditory clues of some sort. The problem is that integrating another driver is next to impossible (this is a general problem though) and unfortunately, in my opinion, impossible really to do by ear...

Just my $0.02 worth.

[tyrion]

I agree with the above. I guess my point was to look at all the factors that might be responsible for an roll off that he is noticing. My Super Hemps are supposed to go down to 40 and I never felt the need for a sub. With the Compact Hemps, I couldn't live without a sub. My current speakers are rated at 45 and the go deeper than the Supers at 40 so I understand what your are saying.

[deepak]

Jack you should try these, 10 bucks!

[luvdunhill]

I agree with the above. I guess my point was to look at all the factors that might be responsible for an roll off that he is noticing. My Super Hemps are supposed to go down to 40 and I never felt the need for a sub. With the Compact Hemps, I couldn't live without a sub. My current speakers are rated at 45 and the go deeper than the Supers at 40 so I understand what your are saying.

yeah, and the strange thing with your speakers that go down to 45, is there may be a peak in the 50-100 range that is causing them to satisfy your extension needs

So, I can think of 3-4 people that I sat down for a day with a RTA analyzer and balanced things out, moved around home-made fiberglass panels, worked on first reflections, ceilings, etc. and every single person hated the results.... the main complaint, was lack of fullness in this lower region and a "brighter" sounding room.... however, after a few months, none of them would go back and definitely were able to hear / appreciate more minor changes in their setups (from tweaks, cables, cartridge alignment, etc.)

Strange phenomenon, but there you have it.

[postjack]

Those Quads are rated to go down to 30hz, do you really need to go beyond that for music? Or is it that you don't feel they are going that low? How big is the room they are in? I'm not hearing what you are hearing but those speakers in a small to medium sized room should do the trick, I would think. If not, you can't be looking to fill in much more low end with a sub, so why not go with something less expensive and see if it does the trick. You can always move up the later. Also, could it be your amp that holding you back?

I feel like they are not going low enough. The room is definitely a small size room, I sit around six feet from my speakers and they are ~7in from the wall. I'm in the middle of the room with my desk behind me. Unfortunately there is a large opening to my left, meaning my listening "room" is not so much a room as a little addon extension to my bedroom.

Don't get me wrong, the bass is good, but I just want more and lower. I was listening to Gershwin's "An American In Paris" on DG vinyl a few days ago, and I knew the bass should be reaching lower.

[postjack]

Jack you should try these, 10 bucks!

Deepak, I already have taken four of these and mounted them inside K1000 cages. They are perfect for blowing one's fool head.