Thiel CS2.4 listening impressions

[deepak]

I got to hear a pair of these at a nearby hifi dealer today. Associated equipment:

Esoteric CDP (looks like the SA-60, I forgot to take down the model)

Anthem D6 (surround processor acting as preamp)

Anthem Statement P2 power amp

Thiel CS2.4 in standard finish, grills on.

It took me about 15 minutes to get used to the presentation. I was sitting about 10 feet away in a 22x18 room, no real room treatments from what I saw. Anybody local to MA/NH it was at Ensemble hifi in the middle showroom. In this room I preferred the speakers facing forward.

At first I wasn't too impressed with them, but like I said after I got adjusted to their presentation I started to like them. They're definitely audiophile speakers in that they are brutally revealing of poor recordings. They're also slightly tipped up in the treble, I suspect a tube preamp or power amp would have helped a lot. Imaging on them was fantastic, forward mixes like guitars and vocals sounded very holographic just like the Avantgarde Duos. However when listening to even well mastered rock cymbal crashes where a bit too forward and splashy. There was also a bit of sibilance on a few Jane Moneheit tracks. They handled classical music with ease (but on Duel of the Fates, didn't make tympani hits sound real enough). Both my NIN test tracks off The Fragile sounded fantastic and the speakers didn't fart out and give up during Just Like You Imagined or The Fragile (track). Solo violin, acoustic guitar, sitar timbre and "palpability" (yeah, yeah) was just fantastic. These speakers can keep up with complex passages and are appropriately fast when the music picks up. Wonderful midrange on them as well, not dry or colored. However I noticed there was virtually no sub-bass extension at all, the speakers were about 2.5 feet from the back walls. The dealer said they measured flat in their room, but no mention of the bass.

So aside from the poor bass extension and brighter presentation no other glaring flaws. Both of which should be fixable. And Jacob says the bass on his pair are great, so I suspect it was something with this setup. Call this a compliment or a flaw IMO these are the AKG K1000 of speakers. Maybe the AKG K701, but the midrange is too dry on the 701.

So that might read a bit harsh, but I really enjoyed them. I feel I have enough experience to rank what I've heard at this point so here goes:

Avantgarde Duo

-

Thiel CS2.4 / Wilson WATT Puppy System 8

Wilson WATT Puppy System 7

-

Martin Logan Summit

B&W 802D

-

Edgarhorn Titan

Martin Logan Purity

B&W 703

Magnepan 1.6QR

Cain and Cain Abbey / JBL ND310 (currently own)

-

So I do think highly of the Thiels to place them on the same level as a pair of $25000 speakers. I do need to hear the WPS8 again now that I have a bit more experience. I omitted any speakers I haven't spent enough time with that I could write anything useful about.

~~~~ Caveat ~~~~ all speakers where used in systems with varying electronics behind them and in different settings.

[luvdunhill]

Hey! Thanks for the ewview!

I've owned these and a few other Theils down the line... The tipped up treble is usually due to the smaller sweet spot and directivity due to the lobing that occurs when (quasi-)first order slopes used in the crossover. When you're in the sweet spot though, it's really amazing.

I know this is a review and you're not looking for opinions, but if you would indulge me for a second, I'd recommend listening to the Vandersteen Quatro speakers. Everything you liked about the Theils is times 10 in my opinion, the sound stage is immense and the detail is pin-point... then there is the bass... gotta run, but the Vandy's are worth a listen IMHO...

[deepak]

Hey! Thanks for the ewview!

I've owned these and a few other Theils down the line... The tipped up treble is usually due to the smaller sweet spot and directivity due to the lobing that occurs when (quasi-)first order slopes used in the crossover. When you're in the sweet spot though, it's really amazing.

I know this is a review and you're not looking for opinions, but if you would indulge me for a second, I'd recommend listening to the Vandersteen Quatro speakers. Everything you liked about the Theils is times 10 in my opinion, the sound stage is immense and the detail is pin-point... then there is the bass... gotta run, but the Vandy's are worth a listen IMHO...

Marc I appreciate the feedback, I will definitely try and hear the Quatros.

edit: do you have any impressions of the CS2.3?

[tom_hankins]

I am also a big fan of the Quatros. I dont think they are as detailed or have a better soundstage than the 2.4s. Overall they are warmer and the stage is set back more behind the speakers. I have not heard any Vanndys that are as resolving as the Thiels. I have yet to listen to any speakers that I like the imaging, and soundstage better than the Thiels or the Quatros and 5As. The Quatro have depper bass but I dont think its as integrated as the 2.4s. Not sure about the brightness you heard. But I would think the electronics played a big part. I have always found the weak link of the Thiels to be a slight hardness in the extreme upper midrange. For me once this is tamed they are the perfect speaker.

I would give a slight overall edge to the Quatros over the 2.4s, but my wife doesnt like them much. "Dull" is her word. (not mine)

The beauty of the Quatros is you can get away with way less power, and have so many more options on amps to use because of the built in subwoofers.

The Thiels (for me anyway) have become a commitment to better upsteam gear. At this point I know if the music sounds really bright its the recording. However, my system is more on the warm side and also slightly forgiving, so this has not been a problem.

[deepak]

I'm hoping to hear the CS2.3 before the end of this year. If they can perform close to the CS2.4 then I'd be perfectly happy with them until I had my house situation sorted and upgrade to the Duos from there.

One thing is for sure the CS2.4 could rock out

[luvdunhill]

I wish I had more time to write this post First, I really like the Thiels. In fact, I had a conversation with the man himself (well, two actually) about implementing mixed order crossovers in two pairs of DIY speakers that I'm working on (that never seem to get finished). His speakers embody all the concepts that I'm trying to achieve in my own design. However, this is the rare case (and stupid... I'm a mere mortal) of just not finding the perfect speaker and trying to do it yourself. However, this is a conversation for another day, and it is somewhat upsetting to me as these speakers have been sitting around half done for like 3 years.

anyways, back on topic. I think the 2.4 is a huge step above the 2.3... I owned the 2.4 for about 6 months (~ eternity) The main difference i think is in the midrange coherency.. everything is so seemless sounding and effortless. This might sound minor, but it's huge in my book. The only complaint of the 2.6 is it seems like there is a sort of over-detailed-ness, which is hard to describe... (well, I can describe it but it will probably de-rail this conversation... it's like today's modern upsampling / oversampling DACs) ... I really like detail, but it seems that the 2.4 create detail outta nowhere, especially in the 440 Hz -> 2kHz range (i.e. upper violin range)...perhaps this is what Tom is alluding to, perhaps not. Some might call it brightness, but it's a bit different than that I think.

All this to say, I really like the Quatro and if you're at all hesitant about the Theils and think "hm, something's not right here, but I don't know what it is" then you owe yourself a listen, in my opinion! I've listened to both the woody and non-woody (the latter in my home) and have to say they sound phenomenal once they get dialed in.

Another speaker to consider if you have the cash, is Roy Johnson's speakers (Green Mountain Audio) or if you're looking to save some cash, the now defunct Meadowlark or the Vandersteen 2ce / 3a etc. "budget" options.

[Pars]

i just got around to buying a sweep/test tone cd, last week, and my pair is pretty flat from 25hz onwards (they are only rated flat to 33), and it's audible, and then visceral, below that. must be a system/room thing.

I don't mean to thread crap the Thiel-centric thing, I'm only asking this here because there appears to be several knowledgeable speaker peeps here. Do any of you have an opinion on this. Looking at the Thiel website, this doesn't appear to be an issue with Thiels, but may be with other speakers...

[Pars]

Yes, I'd noticed that Theil doesn't do this. Of course, from the sounds of it, driver manufacturers are the ones that do this to get a supposed flatter upper end response. Since Thiel makes their own drivers (from the website), they only have to impress their listeners

[deepak]

I really think I will be buying the Avantgardes. They just do something for music that no other speaker I've heard can do. I wasn't even as impressed with a Trio/Basshorn setup since the components didn't integrate as seamlessly. The Duos are pricey, but considering how absurdly expensive the top tier headphones are, and for my listening tastes how much better the Duos rock them all it isn't a tough decision. The associated electronics and custom designed room I'm planning will end up costing a lot more.