Can I run the Lavry DA10 single-endedly?

[slwiser]

My take on musical is when a DAC is able to sound effortless and realistic (and the closest I've heard to this is a very nice vinyl system- sound that was able to fill the room without being placed on a 2-D plane). It should have a deep sounstage, good imaging, and NOT be bright. The Lavry erred toward the sterile, slightly brighter sound, lacked dynamics, drier midrange, and little depth to the soundstage; this is why I did not call it a musical DAC. So it's not purely a measurement of frequency response. I did a comparison somewhere on Head-Case between the Lavry and my North Star and I was going to sell the one I liked less, the Lavry was gone in two days.

Thanks for stepping in and attempting to help me in quantifying what humanflyz was speaking about. It still may not be clear to me because of my lack of experience in higher end equipment but at least you gave some description as to what this concept of musicality speaks toward.

I think humanflyz has a point with climbing a ladder since I don't have extensive experience with equipment much higher than the lavry.

[Filburt]

Ok, so the DA100 and VDA-2 don't sound too cold with the K701? Out of those 2, which do you prefer? I'm going to be using either the Corda Opera or ATH-HA5000 amp (still deciding which one I like better).

Also does the VAC1 actually makes a noticeable difference with the VDA-2?

I have no idea if the VAC1 makes a difference, because I've only ever used the VDA-2 with the VAC1 as that is what grano had. I found the GS-X + VDA-2 was not too cold for me; some of it will depend on your K701s. I've found the earlier (I think before serial number 3000) version doesn't fill out the low end as well, but didn't compare with that specific setup, so maybe you'll find a different result in that case if yours is the earlier model.

Still overall, if you're looking for something warm, the DA100 may be the better choice; although I don't think I'd pair it with the Opera (I find the LM6171/BUF634 sound too thick and inresolute generally, I suppose). I'm not familiar with the ATH-HA5000. I'd personally pair it with something like a dynalo (e.g GS-1 or a DIY build). I like the PCM1794 better than the AK4395, but the AK is still a very good chip as far as sigma delta converters go; I think it'd be better if it were i-out.

Everyone seems to be talking about having a musical DAC and that the Lavry is just not musical. Well how much EQ or sound modification does a DAC need to provide?

'Musical' is a pretty nebulous term; I think it commonly just refers to whether the person finds the sound engaging when listening to music. I didn't have the opportunity to measure the DA10, but it didn't sound particularly linear to me. The OP275 itself isn't what I'd call high performance, and the overall implementation of the AD1955 in the DA10 didn't seem to be anything special; I do wonder about the quality of the filtering. Overall, I agree with deepak; it lacked dynamics, was dry, and the soundstage was not to my liking, each time I used one. I think this was probably due to transient distortion products, maybe high order harmonics, the mediocre slew and settling characteristics of the OP275, and perhaps limitations imposed by the analog stage design generally. I was pretty underwhelmed by it as a source, considering the praise it received on head-fi.

[hungrych]

When I had a VDA-1 I did a comparison with and without the VAC-1, and it definitely sounded better with the VAC-1. I remember there was more space and soundstage width when I used it.

[slwiser]

On another web site (Asylum) the Lavry is consider to be very linear (neutral) but depending on what people are drinking at the time some people can make a straight line out of a curve fairly easily.

[Filburt]

On another web site (Asylum) the Lavry is consider to be very linear (neutral) but depending on what people are drinking at the time some people can make a straight line out of a curve fairly easily.

So? Are you implying I am or was impaired or something? I don't know what their criteria are, but I'm basing my judgment of it on my experience with both qualitative and quantitative analysis of audio equipment. I know you like your DA10, but it may be worth considering that at least some of your disagreement with impressions here is an incident of limited experience rather than the rest of us being either intoxicated or desiring equipment with poorer linearity.

[PFKMan23]

I'm one of the ones who thinks that the Lavry is fairly flat and boring sounding. People will probably disagree with me but in my mind, neutral isn't boring. While the Lavry is probably one of the better retail options, overall it just seems fiarly underwhelming.

[slwiser]

The OP was asking about the Lavry. I enjoy mine. I compared it with the 840c and was satisfied with my Lavry. If the OP can purchase the 840c for the same as the Lavry then he should jump on that deal.

Don't tell me that I don't hear what I hear. What I hear may be offensive to you guys but you may hear something entirely different and apparently do. You need to get an understanding that people hear things differently and to not be so overly sensitive to having someone else hear something differently than you. There are lots of articles and books discussing how differ people hear things differently.

There seems to be a lot of co-dependency going on here even if you appear to distance yourselves from each other by throwing out expletives left and right.

[humanflyz]

Don't tell me that I don't hear what I hear. What I hear may be offensive to you guys but you may hear something entirely different and apparently do. You need to get an understanding that people hear things differently and to not be so overly sensitive to having someone else hear something differently than you. There are lots of articles and books discussing how differ people hear things differently.

There seems to be a lot of co-dependency going on here even if you appear to distance yourselves from each other by throwing out expletives left and right.

Um, what?

Here's how I see things:

1)Deepak said that he didn't find the DA10 musical

2) You seem to imply that musicality is just euphemism for non-linearity.

3) A whole bunch of us try to explain to you what we mean by "musical" and that it doesn't have anything to do with neutrality.

4) You imply that because we don't hear the DA10 as "neutral" that we must be impaired by consumption of alcohol.

5) And now you are implying that we are co-dependent

I don't get it.

No one here is saying that YOU don't hear your DA10 as musical and neutral and whatever other superlatives that you might want to use. So just because we don't hear the Lavry the way you do, that somehow mean we must not care or want neutrality in our sources?

[Filburt]

Don't tell me that I don't hear what I hear. What I hear may be offensive to you guys but you may hear something entirely different and apparently do. You need to get an understanding that people hear things differently and to not be so overly sensitive to having someone else hear something differently than you. There are lots of articles and books discussing how differ people hear things differently.

Where did I tell you that you "don't hear what [you] hear?" I accept that your opinion differs from mine, and I recognise that people hear differently. I'm relatively familiar with psychoacoustics at this point, having learned about it back when I helped with tuning psy models on lossy codecs, and continuing to study about it since then. I don't think that's really the problem here, though. It seems as though you want me to go beyond tolerating your opinion to outright endorsing it as though I believe it is an accurate representation of the DA10's relative performance, and I'm not going to do that. I gave my impressions of the DA10, explained my reasoning, and responded to one of your comments. If you don't like what I have to say, you're welcome to express that, just as you're welcome to say you like the DA10, but don't act like I'm shouting you down when things don't go your way.

There seems to be a lot of co-dependency going on here even if you appear to distance yourselves from each other by throwing out expletives left and right.

Or we just have some people here who happen to agree on this particular issue. Then again, maybe you're right, it's a big conspiracy and afterwards we pat each other on the back for a job well done.

[Shiki]

Just noticed a used Lavry from an Australian eBayer.

These are my options now. Prices are in USD (adjusted from AUD) and including postage.

1. Used Lavry DA10 (eBay) - $717

2. Stello DA100 (HiFi500) - $780

3. VDA-2/VAC-1 (local dealer) - $795

4. Used Benchmark DAC-1 (non-USB, local dealer) - $1028

5. Cambridge 840c (eBay) - $1365

Benchmark DAC-1 (USB) isn't available locally. New price for the non-USB Benchmark is $1468 and the Lavry is $1391. As a comparison, Bel Canto DAC3 is $2570 from the dealer here (way over my budget).

The top 3 seem like the best values so I think those are the ones I'll be considering now. The Lavry is half the price of a new one and the VDA-2 isn't much more than the Stello, plus I can pick it up locally. I think I don't need balanced out for now, as I won't be able to afford a decent balanced amp for some time anyway.

I'll probably settle with the HA5000 and W5000 (with Fitz's F5005 mod) so that's what I'll be using the DAC with. That combo has a warmer signature than the Opera/K701, Opera/W5000 or HA5000/K701.

[Filburt]

I don't know if this is any help, but I think the person (kitaoji) who had the DA100 at the meet I was at had a W5000 as well. Wish I could compare them again though, so I could help more. Seems like the DA100 is relatively safe choice, overall, though. I think at the time I preferred the VDA-2 by a bit, but this may have been due to it being a bit less warm, which with the Zana Deux worked to its advantage. Perhaps with your setup this would be less of an issue; I wish I'd checked it with the GS-X.

I haven't heard the 840c or been able to see the internal design particularly well, so I can't comment much on it. Aside from that, the DA10 would be at the bottom of the list for me out of what's left. Any of the other choices sound fine; but, again, the DA100 and VDA-2 sound like they're probably the best buy and most palatable to your realistic budget situation.

[hYdrociTy]

I'd take the vda2/vac1 since it gives you the option of going balanced and I like the particular dac design.

[Shiki]

I think I've pretty much decided on the Stello DA1000. Sounds like just the thing to tame the brightness of the W5000.

No balanced out is the only downside, but I think by the time I'm ready for balanced (if ever) I would probably get a DAC of the next level.

Thanks all.

[JimP]

FWIW, balanced out is not really a drawback. I use an XLR to RCA set of cables to good effect with my DAC1 or miniDAC (I don't have a balanced amp...maybe in distant future).