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Please explain the Xin phenomenon to me


Frihed89

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Over on an other forum, there are 210 pages of posts from people who are wiating 6-10 months for amps made by Xin and then sending them back to get modded and waiting another 6-10 months.

I have these questions:

1. Has anyone heard an Xin and what do they sound like?

2. What do they cost?

3. Is this an amp for which there are no close substitutes at the price, and that explains why people are waiting so long? (Sort of the SP explanation for waiting)?

4. If not, then why are they (or you) waiting so long without doing anything about it?

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1) I had (its out for upgrades) a supermacro LE and it was probably the best portable amp I've in terms of smoothness and detail.

2) The vary from around 200 to 400.

3) And, kind of like SP, but the Xin isint as good

4) Im waiting to get it back so I can sell it already. A buyer is basically waiting for me to ship it out to him whenever I get it back so hopefully I'll get it back soon.

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I've had a bunch of xin portables. I used to buy them whenever they'd show up cheap on hf, then listen for a month, and resell. I'd use them when I was between other amps, basically. Good, but not great, and I'd never wait ages for one. Better than the hornet and sr71 tho. And a great match for etys.

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I heard 4 different Xins at the recent Florida meet (mini, micro, Reference, and some other one I didn't like much) and was a bit disappointed considering the hype, especially with the Reference and the micro. I agree with Grawk in that I think they're good (I liked the Reference), but when compared to other amps, they were less refined. The micro and the mini and that one other one seemed to give a lot of oomph and fullness (I can see them being good with Etys, though I didn't try), but there was a sacrifice in separation, detail and that basic nuances that allow me to enjoy music fully.

When using an ipod, they were pretty good, but when hooked up to a decent home cdp and using the K2 HD cd to test things out, the bottom end of all the Xins lacked clarity, and smushed things together so that a tympani roll sounding like a powerful mess, whereas on other amps, you could clearly distinguish the strike and tones. I preferred the PRII, SR-71, AE-2, and Diablo over the Reference, which was my favorite of the Xins.

I understand why people like them the same way people like a Hornet. They give you a sort of "wow" the very second you start listening, but I prefer a more refined sound, and had somehow gotten the impression that's what Xin did, but no. Since the major differences were distinguished when using a considerable better source than would be used in daily walking around town, I liked the Reference enough to recommend it if someone were interested, but that's about it.

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I heard 4 different Xins at the recent Florida meet (mini, micro, Reference, and some other one I didn't like much) and was a bit disappointed considering the hype, especially with the Reference and the micro.

I like the mini and macro. The micro and reference both suck because it seems the only people who own them are the really annoying ones.

I do think the mini and macro are the best choices for er4 owners though, especially if you buy used. I can't imagine buying any xin product direct.

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xin changed his focus to suit his market. More people wanted "wow", so he switched his designs towards that. The SuperMacro 3 with the right opamps sounds pretty darn good, considering.

i always thought of xin as someone who didn't much care for any market. he's on record as saying he doesn't mind clones of his amp appearing in china, so long as they sound good. his penchant for disappearing, lousy communication track record, and slow shipping times also seem to support this indifference towards any market.

anyways, i'm one of those in line for one of his amps. i have a mini^3 to preocupy me, and no money is being paid until it is shipped, so it's no big deal. whether that makes me an eater, one of the eaten, or simply fed up, time will tell.

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Over on an other forum, there are 210 pages of posts from people who are wiating 6-10 months for amps made by Xin and then sending them back to get modded and waiting another 6-10 months.

I have these questions:

1. Has anyone heard an Xin and what do they sound like?

2. What do they cost?

3. Is this an amp for which there are no close substitutes at the price, and that explains why people are waiting so long? (Sort of the SP explanation for waiting)?

4. If not, then why are they (or you) waiting so long without doing anything about it?

1. Yes, I've heard them. The Mini and Macro don't have a sound, per se, since they're user-configurable. I guess because head-fiers are used to reviewing amps as closed designs, they find it natural to review amps and make statements as though it's dispositive of the issue (whether or not they intend to do that, I don't know, but the manner of the language is such anyhow). There are better op-amps (and buffers) available than what Xin ships with and what makes the rounds on head-fi. So, I think it's difficult to get a good idea of realistically maximum performance based on such reviews.

2. Uh..I think they range from 200 to 350 USD.

3. User-configurable designs are fairly unusual to begin with, and the Xin Mini/Macro designs are about as configurable as it gets. I'm not a fan of the Reference; it basically sacrifices those strengths just to use some unbuffered op-amps of modest performance and trade on the mysticism of the Supermicro that some fans have built up. The Supermicro, at least, is very small and uses a DC-DC converter to keep the supply at 5.5V, so it still has something unusual to offer. Still, I don't share the enthusiasm for the AD8615, although it sounds decent.

Still, he leaves out bypassing and decoupling that I wouldn't personally leave out and unfortunately, on the Mini at least, this problem isn't easily solved, either. The absence of solder mask and poor access to the ground plane is regrettable.

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Filburt has a point I didn't think of in that they seem to be modified both by Xin and users every few months. I have no idea what versions of any that I heard, (Voltron might step in here as he brought all to the meet), so when I say I was disappointed in the micro, for example only, I don't know if it's the same micro others have been hearing.

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Xin Reference: $279

RSA SR-71: $395 + shipping

RSA Hornet $370 + shiipping

Headamp AE-2: $349 + shipping

I have a Reference on order, and I'll only pay if and when it is shipped. In the meantime I have three portable amps to keep me going. I listened to one of the early versions of the Reference and I thought it was very good, and I hope the shipped versions will be at least as good. Quite a few people are of the opinion that the sound quality of the Reference approaches that of a decent home amp. It has a 220+ hour battery life and it costs $279. I think there is more to praise than to criticise there. Several of those who have received their Reference are very enthusiastic about its sound quality and feel it was worth the wait. I think Xin is unusual and a perfectionist; he is more interested in music and sound quality than profit, and I like that. Those who don't like his style should not deal with him; that isn't complicated. I don't understand the aggression and criticism towards those of us who want to own one of his amps and are prepared to wait for it.

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I can't explain it. I can understand neither the Xin nor Storm Audio phenomenon. With Xin, you at least get product, but it seems to be out of date by the time you get it. So you have to ship it back for the update. ???

Nothing makes you ship them back. You could keep it, and it'd be like buying an amp from almost any other builder.

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Nothing makes you ship them back. You could keep it, and it'd be like buying an amp from almost any other builder.

I agree. But sending it back in for updates seems to be part of the "Xin Phenomenon". It's part of what I don't understand. Any amplifier you have sounds better than any you don't have by definition.

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Indeed. As I see it, it's like any other manfacturuer who updates their product line. Nothing forces you to buy the new/updated one.

Agreed, but see previous reply. Also, Xin products seem to be in constant upgrade and that feeds the phenomenon. All one gets is a "snapshot" of the current product and it often is out of date by the time it arrives.

If someone likes the Xin business model, of course they should participate in it. I'm just saying I don't understand liking it or putting up with it. Each to their own!

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