Master Tapes for everyone!

[aerius]

The Tape Project, wherein they make dubs off the original master tapes with custom built gear and you get albums on 15ips 1/4" half track stereo tape. Reel to reel tape, as close to the master tape as you'll ever get without owning the actual master tape. The catalog is pretty limited, unfortunately.

[recstar24]

I bet those tapes sound utterly fantastic - the selection will definitely always be limited though. I mean if Steve Hoffman has a hard time finding classic titles to remaster because of greedy music business suits than I am sure these guys will have some big obstacles to get the real good classic stuff.

[ojnihs]

damn those are going to sound wonderful

[jp11801]

the studio for the project is located in San Francisco and I was able to go to the studio to an open session to hear the latest tapes they were working on.

So we got to hear the actual master tape of Waltz for Debby by Bill Evans, they had just received the tape from Riverside Records in Berkeley. All I can say is I have never heard this recording sound so good, I have several well done versions of this and I was blown away.

It's a tough pill to swallow as each tape is $325 but you can get a reduced price by purchasing a subscription. Plus a good performing deck and tape pre will set you back a few. This is the ultimate for the well to do audio enthusiast. The studio is awesome as well the sound was being produced by massive Bottlehead monos that were driving each driver in this massive speaker system. Doc Bottlehead is also part of the project and was in attendance as well.

[Chekhonte]

goddamn that's expensive. Well I'm out.

[aerius]

the studio for the project is located in San Francisco and I was able to go to the studio to an open session to hear the latest tapes they were working on.

Man, that must've been one hell of a mind blowing experience. Master tapes with a truly state of the art system, an experience like that will just totally redefine the boundaries of audio for you.

goddamn that's expensive. Well I'm out.

No kidding, I could never justify it unless I win the lottery or a rich long lost uncle dies and leaves me a fat wad of cash in his will. Still, it's nice to know that something like this exists, a man's gotta dream...

[deepak]

$200 a tape with subscription isn't entirely unreasonable. A good DCC double LP will run you $40-60 new.

I really don't want to know how much the modded players they're advertising cost...

[tom_hankins]

I hate even seeing threads like this. I walk by the used reel to reels at the store I go to and smile thinking if I could get some newer media i would get one these. I have a friend in AZ. that still uses reel to reel in his system as #1 source. I was weened on it and vinyl and would love to have one in my system. I think I will start checking out audiokarma for some info on players.

[Knuckledragger]

I own two 1/4" reel to reel decks one is a relatively small Tascam, and the other is a massive Otari that sits in its own 3' rack case. If I sold both, I might be able to afford one of their tapes. 0_o

The Tape Project's page has one of those menu boxes that follows as you scroll. Those thing always creep me out.

[jp11801]

IMHO these tapes are well worth it if you have the means. A recoding like waltz for debby I have played hundreds of times and have never heard it sound so good. Part of that was the amazing set up in the mastering room but I was hearing things on that tape I had not heard before plus the mix sounded different???

My concern is I often listen at night after a few drinks and worry about completely torking up the tape because if you fuck it up you lost 200-325 bucks. I am still thinking about doing this but may wait a year to see what develops. The problem this project is going to have is it is a side project for all concerned and they are losing money on these sales at the current sales projections. They are trying to get more commercial rock stuff that was well recoded for the next season.

[philodox]

How good do the normal r2r tapes sound? I see a bunch on ebay for around $5 a pop... not bad.

[jp11801]

How good do the normal r2r tapes sound? I see a bunch on ebay for around $5 a pop... not bad.

probably not that good for the most part as I have seen tapes at various speeds most are slower IPS the bitch is getting a machine that will have three speed settings if you wanted to play these commercial tapes.

The commercial tapes you see were probably high speed duped the tape project is duping in real time.

I would think for example unless they made 15IPS tapes that vinyl might sound better than what you normally see on flea bay

[Upstateguy]

Why wouldn't the master tapes sound just as good as a wave, FLAC or 24 bit file?

[jp11801]

Why wouldn't the master tapes sound just as good as a wave, FLAC or 24 bit file?

I'm not really sure what tape you are referring to but there are a number of reasons here are two

yes if you made a 24bit direct copy of the master tape then theoretically they should sound almost alike. The problem is everyone discounts the importance of quality analog to digital convertors.

second is and I know it sounds like hifi pixie dust but tape just seems to sound better this has been repeated by people like Steve Hoffman and the guys at the Tape Project. They have compared cd transfers to the tape and the tape wins each time.

the last piece is if you are referring to why would say the XRCD of Waltz for Debby not sound as good as the tape project version more likely than not ist's the mastering combined with the format.

just my2cents

[deepak]

The other issue is, is 24 bit enough to capture all the information from an analog recording? I have never done comparisons between 24 bit and higher, but there are people at the SH forums that claim higher resolution sounds better.

I know between 16 or 24 bit needle drops, the 24 bit sounds better. (ABX tested in foobar).

And when you're doing a tape or needle drop to digital they are always going to have to go through an analog to digital converter which has some impact on the sound quality. I'd love to hear one done with something like the Apogee digital gear, but to me the original vinyl played back on a high end system sounds better than any needle drop (using computer sound cards).

[grawk]

The other issue is, is 24 bit enough to capture all the information from an analog recording? I have never done comparisons between 24 bit and higher, but there are people at the SH forums that claim higher resolution sounds better.

I know between 16 or 24 bit needle drops, the 24 bit sounds better. (ABX tested in foobar).

And when you're doing a tape or needle drop to digital they are always going to have to go through an analog to digital converter which has some impact on the sound quality. I'd love to hear one done with something like the Apogee digital gear, but to me the original vinyl played back on a high end system sounds better than any needle drop (using computer sound cards).

Bit depth isn't what's important, and isn't resolution. Bit depth determines dynamics, and 16 bits is 96db. If you can't fit the dynamic range in 96db, you're fucked anyway, because that's from below normal room sound to jumbo jet taking off.

As to resolution, 192khz will have more of the harmonics, so could theoretically sound better than 96khz. But it'd be really subtle. REALLY subtle.

[deepak]

Bit depth isn't what's important, and isn't resolution. Bit depth determines dynamics, and 16 bits is 96db. If you can't fit the dynamic range in 96db, you're fucked anyway, because that's from below normal room sound to jumbo jet taking off.

As to resolution, 192khz will have more of the harmonics, so could theoretically sound better than 96khz. But it'd be really subtle. REALLY subtle.

Sorry I didn't add that they were 16/44 and 24/96 files that I was comparing. So the higher resolution probably had something to do with it.

[grawk]

Sorry I didn't add that they were 16/44 and 24/96 files that I was comparing. So the higher resolution probably had something to do with it.

Mastering does matter with 16 bit depth tho. But if they just select the best 16 bits, instead of compressing, or overloading, you should have no trouble fitting any recording in that dynamic range.

[postjack]

Why wouldn't the master tapes sound just as good as a wave, FLAC or 24 bit file?

AAD

Lets break it down

A - so far so good!

A - still good.

D - BAD

which is why wave, FLAC, or 24 bit files won't sound as good as the master tape.

[Dusty Chalk]

Bit depth determines dynamics, and 16 bits is 96db. If you can't fit the dynamic range in 96db, you're fucked anyway, because that's from below normal room sound to jumbo jet taking off.

It isn't simply dynamic range, it's also what I call "internal" dynamic range -- the bits between the bits. That would be a similar argument to saying that MP3 compression should be just as good as uncompressed audio, because you're not changing the dynamic range, only the various levels at frequency-dependent levels.

It would be like saying you can't hear 2-bit dither as long as the music is louder than 3 bits -- or 10-bit dither if the music is louder than 11 bits -- simply not true.

[Dusty Chalk]

goddamn that's expensive. Well I'm out.

^2