HD650 - OK beaten to death, but begrudging props

[JimP]

HD650s - the Rodney Dangerfield of headphones?? When I first borrowed them earlier this year, I was underwhelmed (compared to PS-1 (sold) and L3000, etc). I bought a pair to putz around with my Lisa IIIXP and DAC1, but these phones have grown on me...to the point I'm reaching for them half the time. OK I've recabled them with RAL and defoamed them and rubbed them with barbecue sauce. If I were to cut objectively - no BS - to THE SOUND - these HD650s would hold their own, certainly be tops for 'bang-for-buck'. Running them out of my DHA3000 and LIIIXP/LLP for reference.

So what's my point...nothing. maybe I could easily be happy without blowing my wad on silly expensive gear.

Always been curious when it is appropriate to use ,

but HD650 (with proper amping) =

Gratuitous money shot of LIIIXP/LLP system used to run HD650 to good effect...

[PFKMan23]

[tkam]ok[/tkam]

[JimP]

thanks for your OK to my zero calorie post...means a lot to me

[PFKMan23]

Eh.... tkam would understand....

In any case, glad you have found the 650s to your liking. I've heard them SE, and balanced and I still think regardless that they have too much bass. I also think that you need to upgarde your amp.

[aerius]

I've heard them SE, and balanced and I still think regardless that they have too much bass.

not enough bass, if anything. i really like he HD-650s.

Sample variations, I'd bet. I've heard a 650 with slightly less bass than my 580 and another 650 with almost as much bass as a PS-1, all out of the same source and amp.

[Augsburger]

Interesting. I have tried three different HD650's at different times and they all had very similar characteristics, ie. good bass lacking in midrange detail. The difference is always the most noticeable in the amp. to mea anyway.

[deepak]

Interesting. I have tried three different HD650's at different times and they all had very similar characteristics, ie. good bass lacking in midrange detail. The difference is always the most noticeable in the amp. to mea anyway.

Yup I think they're great headphones, and like wise both of my HD650s that I owned sounded pretty much the same. I agree that they lack midrange detail compared to other headphones.

[catscratch]

I'm not a fan of them to be honest. Sennheiser took the HD600 and ruined it with too much bass and an overly recessed top end (which was too recessed on the HD600 already). The HD600 was not a fast or especially detailed headphone but at least it was neutral, and had very good tone and tembre. The HD650 is none of those, but it's still not very fast or detailed.

Still, to each their own. I never heard the HD650 in a very good system so it never had a chance to really show its stuff. Maybe when I do I'll change my mind.

[aerius]

To me at least, Senns only sound good with a vinyl rig.

To be honest, I'm not so sure about how well they scale, I personally think my Grado 225 and RS-1 scale every bit as well if not better than my 580.

[Guest sacd lover]

the 650 scales very well, i would definitely suggest hearing a pair in a very nice system before you make up your mind about them.

I have been one of those that eventually became discouraged with the 650 and have been somewhat of a detractor since. I still am not sure that I dont prefer the 600 .... or even the 580. But, I recently tried the 650/ Oracle upgrade senn cable I bought from Jacob on my Supra 392. I was absolutely shocked how good the 650 sounded. All my complaints of to much bass and not enough treble vanished. Just a very lifelike and engaging sound with exceptional refinement remained. I stand corrected; atleast with this pairing. This combo could do rock and electric blues too.

[n_maher]

catscratch, next time you test drive a car, try just driving it around the parking lot and then making final judgment since that's basically what you did with the HD650s.

[ojnihs]

catscratch, next time you test drive a car, try just driving it around the parking lot and then making final judgment since that's basically what you did with the HD650s.

haha nice

[laxx]

catscratch, next time you test drive a car, try just driving it around the parking lot and then making final judgment since that's basically what you did with the HD650s.

What's wrong with that? That's what I did when I bought my car. =T

I heard balanced HD650's out of Mikhails golden box and it had too much bass for me. =T

[grawk]

I bought my car on ebay based on hype

I mean, come on, it was only 16 years old, and had only 293,000 miles...

[tom_hankins]

I put a few hours in with my 650s run balanced from my vinyl setup, out of the transparency preamp outputs yesterday and this morning. I forgot how much I enjoy them. They are the only thing headphone related i have. I'm glad I kept them.

[catscratch]

catscratch, next time you test drive a car, try just driving it around the parking lot and then making final judgment since that's basically what you did with the HD650s.

Well in that case I would have driven the car around the parking lot for a year, and the lot would have been the size of my daily commute.

I've lived with the HD650 for over a year and I've heard it with several portable and stationary amps. I haven't heard it balanced or with a truly reference-level source, which is why I put that disclaimer in my post.

I don't like this headphone. I don't care how much you flame me for it, I'm not going to lie about it just to be popular.

But, I acknowledge the possibility that there may be a rig in which I will like it.

[Dusty Chalk]

catscratch, next time you test drive a car, try just driving it around the parking lot and then making final judgment since that's basically what you did with the HD650s.

That's not entirely fair. I mean, suppose I were shopping for a car, and by some miraculous dip in snobbery, someone offered me a F1 GTR (or whatever it's called) to test drive. L yeah, I'd drive it as fast as I could, but without driving it on a test track, that "as fast as I could" would be a measly 65 miles per hour legally. I'd be underwhelmed with the amount of trunk space, and conclude that I did not like the car. You could come back and say, "Well, you certainly didn't determine what it was capable of", but I think my real-world test drive was perfectly indicative of the future driving habits I would have in that car. I would say that my conclusion in this hypothetical situation would be valid, neh? Back to the amp analogy, if that's what he's going to feed the thing, then that's what he should test it out on. And it's not like he didn't tell us.

[ph0rk]

Back to the amp analogy, if that's what he's going to feed the thing, then that's what he should test it out on.

I wish more discussions about audio took this tack.

Yes, if headphone X won't reach its potential until you use gear of the quality of Y or Z, then you really don't know what X is really like. But, if you're stuck with gear like a or b, Then X either sounds good compared to other headphones in your current craptacular system, or it doesn't.

There is no truth, only relevance. And bourbon - lots of bourbon.

[n_maher]

That's not entirely fair. <snip> Back to the amp analogy, if that's what he's going to feed the thing, then that's what he should test it out on. And it's not like he didn't tell us.

I have no problem with different relative levels of gear, there are performance sacrifices with each unless you go really crazy. But it doesn't take that much of an amp to drive the veil off of every Senn can that I've encountered, hell my current rig (source excluded) is pretty f'ing low fi and sounds anything but veiled. And again, I just don't see much point in coming into a thread and saying what he did since his closing statement basically made what he said in the first part of the post pretty meaningless.

[catscratch]

Um. My first point was that with the gear I used I didn't like the HD650. My second point is that I admit the possibility that somewhere out there a rig could potentially exist in which I will like how the HD650 sounded. These 2 points aren't mutually exclusive. I'm simply being open-minded about a system I don't like.

Besides, what doesn't sound veiled to one may sound veiled and bloated to another. I don't subscribe to audio relativism but since headphones ignore HRTFs to a point, they do sound physically different to different people.

[Dusty Chalk]

Um. My first point was that with the gear I used I didn't like the HD650. My second point is that I admit the possibility that somewhere out there a rig could potentially exist in which I will like how the HD650 sounded. These 2 points aren't mutually exclusive. I'm simply being open-minded about a system I don't like.

Yeah, that's the way I took it.

And Nate -- I'm only defending him, because sometimes my posting style is similar -- I give extensive impressions from what is actually very little data (or perhaps data from a very specific set of circumstances and/or upwind gear), so I feel obliged to qualify them at the end of my post. It doesn't render the entire post moot, it just establishes context.

[laxx]

I had no problem with veil, I never thought the Senn veil was that bad. Granted I never heard them unamped and the first time I heard it was out of my Darkvoice, which people say work great with Senns. It's just they have too much bass for me. That and I enjoy the detail out of my K701 more than the fullness of the Senns.

[Uncle Erik]

I'm still on the fence with the HD-650. It was the first "good" headphone I bought and was completely blown away by it at the time. Then I picked up some AKGs and Grados. Suddenly, they did not sound as good and they've spent a lot of time back in the box. The RS-1 was probably the death blow. I've given the HD-650 a few more listens lately, and will keep it around until the Zana Deux shows up. I hear there's great synergy with them, so I'll give it a shot and then decide whether to sell them.

[bhd812]

I always been switchy about the 650's and 600's. I think if you get a balanced setup just right you can rock the 600's amazingly where the 650's would seem boom boom bad. but the 650's are slower and a bit more lively (like in yo face) then the 600's. hardcore 600 user for the most part, esp at a used price of $170ish

I mean, come on, it was only 16 years old, and had only 293,000 miles...

"I mean, come on, He was out of town, and his two friends were soooo fine" :Los Del Rio, Macarena

[JimP]

Now I've had a "Soylent Green Is People!" moment.

I've acquired a used Apogee miniDAC and a used HD580 hardwired with Oracle balanced. This was intended for an office setup, running direct out XLR from the DAC. Maybe it's new toy-syndrome, but the result is nothing short of outstanding! (punchy, visceral, detailed, and intimate are the adjectives that come to mind). Same result running direct out XLR from my DAC1USB as well. I need to do some long-term listening/testing, but some immediate thoughts:

--I've blown $$$ to get to my DHA3000/L3000 -- I still consider this to be an ultimate aural plateau (at least for me) -- but you can get ~90% there at a fraction of the outlay.

--This is undermining what I thought was a hard-earned education over the last 18-24 months (trial and error with various phones/amps)

--to boot, separate from the HD580 direct XLR out, the mini-DAC sounds fantastic with the RS-1 and K271S direct headphone out (did not get this wow factor direct headphone out from DAC1USB, will have to more sustained A-B comparison)

--or maybe my ears suck; I've already crossed the inflexion point where better gear is wasted on me.

This has now scrambled where I go next -- not that I'm going to dump all my other gear tomorrow -- but I'm going to have to do some sustained listening with permutations of what I have now.

One small practical step I'll do is -- given how much I like the HD580 run balanced -- to get a replacement balanced cable for my HD650.

No more for the moment

currently I am