Impressions: RS-1 & K340

[Guest sacd lover]

Yes.

You like the Ultrasone PL2500's and you dont like the older HP-2??? The 2500 is one of the weirdest sounding, sibilant and colored headphones I have ever tried. Ultrasones in general are just embarassingly bad.

[tom_hankins]

Iono about that man, iono... The differences I heard were between inspiring and depressing...

I guess you also have to account for the fact that I cannot stand a Grado in any shape or form.

I'm with you on the dislike of the Grados. Owned the HP-2, 225, 325, RS-1 (twice, SE and balanced) PS-1 was here (on loan) for 2-3 months balanced. I enjoyed several phones I had over that time period more than the Grados. The only one I liked was the HP-2. But the fact that it was the most god awful, painful, thing in the headphone world if I had my glasses on....it had to go. Sonicly it was very nice paired with the two box Gilmore V-1 amp and the Toaster style SDS. Probably should have got contacts and kept them.

[deepak]

I'm with you on the dislike of the Grados. Owned the HP-2, 225, 325, RS-1 (twice, SE and balanced) PS-1 was here (on loan) for 2-3 months balanced. I enjoyed several phones I had over that time period more than the Grados. The only one I liked was the HP-2. But the fact that it was the most god awful, painful, thing in the headphone world if I had my glasses on....it had to go. Sonicly it was very nice paired with the two box Gilmore V-1 amp and the Toaster style SDS. Probably should have got contacts and kept them.

I agree glasses and flat pads kill my ears. I just leave my contacts in.

[aerius]

The only one I liked was the HP-2. But the fact that it was the most god awful, painful, thing in the headphone world if I had my glasses on....it had to go.

That's why I have Armani glasses, well, ok, the real reason is my health insurance covers them. Seriously, these ones have the nice low-profile arms that don't pinch into my ears do stupid stuff when I wear my headphones, whereas my old glasses were a serious pain with any one of my headphones.

[Fitz]

i never had a problem. i must be lucky.

Yeah, but anyone with normally shaped human ears is more likely to have this problem.

[fierce_freak]

Its not just the pads, but the whole upstream of equipment that account for the amount of bass coming out of them grados. Oh and you can't forget the recording.

Yeah, that's true. None of the systems I've heard it on for extended periods sounded better with flats than bowls, though. That only includes Jay's, Renato's, and my system, though.

i never had a problem. i must be lucky.

Me, either. I've never really understood any of the comfort complaints with Grado 'phones, including the metal Grados, and I wear glasses.

[postjack]

Me, either. I've never really understood any of the comfort complaints with Grado 'phones, including the metal Grados, and I wear glasses.

me neither, but my glasses are very thin titanium. However, I did have some trouble with the weight of the HP2. \ But the RS-1 with flats and the GS1K with bagels are two of the most comfortable phones I've worn, along with a well loosened HD650.

[MaloS]

You like the Ultrasone PL2500's and you dont like the older HP-2??? The 2500 is one of the weirdest sounding, sibilant and colored headphones I have ever tried. Ultrasones in general are just embarassingly bad.

I like the potential of Proline 2500 driver, but the treble in it is idiotic for our purposes. It is not weird at all, its fairly flat, mild recession in the mids... UNTIL you get into the treble region. The treble is useful for monitoring purposes, which is what the can is for. That part is annoying as hell.

- I have not found a headphone that suits my tastes.

[Dusty Chalk]

well, they all suck.

You're doing it wrong.

[deepak]

You're doing it wrong.

Hey Dusty is the SDS your preferred amp for the L3000 now?

[Dusty Chalk]

With the X-Tone, yes.

And technically, it's a SDS-- (I.E. not fully a SDS, but more than a Supra).

[philodox]

Headroom: The RS-1 can play a hell of a lot louder without sounding strained. If I push my K340 it'll start sounding a little plasticky and echoey, and if I want to play Slayer at earbleed volumes it goes to crap. The colourations get really bad, the soundstage mushes into a shitty blob, and it sounds very compressed and strained. The RS-1 just keeps getting louder until my ears hurt. The treble gets a bit out of hand and there's a hint of congestion in the midrange, but that's about it.

No way, that has got to be your amp.

The rest of the comparison was spot on though for your pair of K340's. I'm so jealous of your RS-1's.

In any case, even with a fully "healthy" K340 the points noted in the opening post remain true. The margins won't be as big, but that's about it. Or to put it another way, it would be like comparing an Alessandro MS-1 and a Grado 225 to an RS-1, with my K340 being the MS-1 and a good K340 being the 225. It closes the gap a bit but it ain't gonna turn the tables around.

I don't think that comparison is very good... but you've been a Grado fanboy longer than I have, so who knows.

Its not just the pads, but the whole upstream of equipment that account for the amount of bass coming out of them grados. Oh and you can't forget the recording.

Well, this was on my rig and Massive Attack has good recording quality, so there wasn't anything too terrible going on. The flats just made the bass go like woah.

[MaloS]

Well, 'woah' is better than k340 'where?'

[philodox]

bass should go "woah." that's called good bass (you should hear my speakers).

I think I know how much bass I like, thanks.

I'd love to hear your speakers sometime, but I can't have a speaker rig in my current situation, so it's headphones for me.

Well, 'woah' is better than k340 'where?'

My K340's have bass, the only people I could see complaining about the quantity are PS-1 fiends or maybe DT770 dumbasses.

[grawk]

I think I know how much bass I like, thanks. :)My K340's have bass, the only people I could see complaining about the quantity are PS-1 fiends or maybe DT770 dumbasses.

I've never seen 340s, let alone heard them. But most people who complain about bass levels on headphones have never experienced a rock and roll show, imho. With some music, it's impossible to have too much bass on headphones. Physically impossible. PS1s approach realistic, minus the tachycardia.

[philodox]

I've never seen 340s, let alone heard them. But most people who complain about bass levels on headphones have never experienced a rock and roll show, imho. With some music, it's impossible to have too much bass on headphones. Physically impossible. PS1s approach realistic, minus the tachycardia.

I've been to tons of live concerts. When the bass is so bloated that it looses coherency that is what I call too much. When I listened to bass heavy music on the RS-1s using the flat pads it was too much IMO, while with the bowls [when positioned properly] it sounded fine. I can definately understand the draw to the flats though, as when I listened to music that didn't have a lot of bass they sounded lovely. I think that ultimately I would probably settle on crushed bowls so that I wouldnt have to swap them. If I get a RS-1 or MS-Pro, my K340's aren't going anywhere, so rather than switching pads for different music... I can just switch headphones.

[grawk]

I've been to tons of live concerts. When the bass is so bloated that it looses coherency that is what I call too much. When I listened to bass heavy music on the RS-1s using the flat pads it was too much IMO, while with the bowls [when positioned properly] it sounded fine. I can definately understand the draw to the flats though, as when I listened to music that didn't have a lot of bass they sounded lovely. I think that ultimately I would probably settle on crushed bowls so that I wouldnt have to swap them. If I get a RS-1 or MS-Pro, my K340's aren't going anywhere, so rather than switching pads for different music... I can just switch headphones.

I wouldn't call bloated bass too much. I'd call it bloated. That's usually indicative of something wrong with the amplifier.

[philodox]

I wouldn't call bloated bass too much. I'd call it bloated. That's usually indicative of something wrong with the amplifier.

If changing the pads makes it not bloated, I fail to see how it is the amplifier.

big bass and bloated bass are two entirely different things.

True enough, I guess. In this case it was both. Too much bass that lost its coherency. Did not have the issue with the Bowls or with my K340's, so I would attribute the change to the Flat pads.

[grawk]

If changing the pads makes it not bloated, you're just not hearing the bloat after changing the pads.

[philodox]

putting the bowls on doesn't make the bass not bloated, it kills the bass. big difference.

Ok, I'm done here. I don't even own these headphones and you own no headphones.

If changing the pads makes it not bloated, you're just not hearing the bloat after changing the pads.

We may be talking about two different things here, but since I'm working off of memory and a headphone I don't own I can't really re-listen and expand on what I'm saying... so until I own a RS-1 or MS-Pro I can't say much more.

Flat pad mafia - 1

Philodox - 0

[grawk]

Obviously if you don't own headphones anymore, you never did, and therefore can't know anything

[MaloS]

I think I know how much bass I like, thanks.

I'd love to hear your speakers sometime, but I can't have a speaker rig in my current situation, so it's headphones for me. ;)My K340's have bass, the only people I could see complaining about the quantity are PS-1 fiends or maybe DT770 dumbasses.

I don't have any taste for either PS-1 or DT770, or even L3000, but depth of bass on K340 is what kills the headphone for me. Everything else on it is magical. Lack of strength on it is not so much an issue of the can, rather issue of the fit (with good fit it is there), but this can will never reach below 40.

[philodox]

...depth of bass on K340 is what kills the headphone for me. Everything else on it is magical. Lack of strength on it is not so much an issue of the can, rather issue of the fit (with good fit it is there), but this can will never reach below 40.

I hear you, and I've heard K340 rigs that sound like that.

Fit is definately of huge import with the K340, and the reason meet impressions of them are usually lukewarm.

[philodox]

what does me not having headphones have to do with anything? i have spent months and months with the RS-1s.

I was not attempting to invalidate your opinion, just stating why I am backing out.

Obviously if you don't own headphones anymore, you never did, and therefore can't know anything.

So, I'm the only one around here that's not allowed to give Jacob a hard time for backing out of headphones?

[MaloS]

I hear you, and I've heard K340 rigs that sound like that.

Fit is definately of huge import with the K340, and the reason meet impressions of them are usually lukewarm.

Well ok then. You cannot quote my rig for lacking power, my amplifier has more power than yours could ever produce. Cannot quote my rig for lacking tubes (it has a few). Cannot quote my rig for being single-ended and thus weak (cause guess what, differential drive all the way), cannot quote my rig for having poor k340 (fully modded by Larry, including cables and 4-pin XLR), cannot quote my rig for crappy source, although it is not the most marvelous. It does reproduce deep bass though, my speakers answer for that one just fine.

My setup has issue with bass impact usually because the fit does not work very well with my head, but i can use my hands to get it there for critical listening. (Humans are very evolved creatures). I do not listen very loud because I like my hearing.

And now you are telling me that your K340 rig will touch the sub-bass work on Hallucinogen's In Dub ? Fill me in on what you did to your k340? Is there a subwoofer upgrade anywhere in the room?