Xin portable amps

[Tony]

Hi guys. I've owned to Xin amps (Supermini III and Supermacro LE) and I don't think very highly of them. On Headfi, Xin receives a lot of praise, especially for the Supermicro and the Reference. After my experience with the other two models, I'm not very keen on trying either. Has anyone had experience with Xin? What do you think of his work?

[Icarium]

His amps are one of those that I have never had experience with. For some reason people keep buying them even with the ridiculous wait times. I bet they aren't bad sounding for portable amps.... I'd love to hear some opinions about them myself.

[jinp6301]

I like them quite a bit. I had a Supermacro LE (that I sent to be upgraded 5 months ago!!!) and it was pretty damn good compared to the other portables I tried. Pretty smooth, worked well with my grados, sounded really good with a vintage sony PCDP. I cant justify $400 bucks for it while the ~$100 XP is almost as good.

[hYdrociTy]

There is a 5 or 6?

I bought a used miniIV with ad8397s and love it. The battery is just about long enough ~8 hours and the sound is top notch. It is also so small that it doesn't fell like having an amp at all. Had loads of juice to drive full sized cans especially with the 5.5volt boost switch on. The extra features work well enough that I don't consider them "extra" but actual valid features, for example the bass boost adds very little distortion (almost as well as the sharp md players in this respect). The crossfeed is nice to have (though still more like the meier/hr in performance, unlike the minibox-E's circuit which sounds more like a dsp solution), and the p->s impedance switch and gain switch are essentials. All this shebang for 150 used is quite a bargain.

I wouldn't buy new or send anything in for "upgrades" though, as lately the xin line has caved in to the "knowledge" (personal preferences) of quite a few annoying people so the sound has been floating more and more towards the supermicro in signature, for example the latest supermini IV 4/12 updates as well as the xin Reference amp.

The micro isn't the best in sq, but since the "popular" guys on that other place praise it as a godsend, xin now focuses on the "warm fet" or whatever sound those few "influential" people like because the ignorant masses there are mere flocks agreeing with the popularly influential and most likely highly dumb few.

[Jon L]

I quite liked the old SuperMacro III v.4 with my Ety's, mainly b/c of the low-distortion bass boost and impedance switch. They were really made for each other, and the ability to roll all kinds of op-amps sure was fun and useful.

However, all this newer stuff about "warm" and "tube-like" sound the Xin is going for these days has stopped me from buying newer Xin amps. I like my SS amps to sound like good SS and tube amps to sound like good tube amps. I also like my sound fast, transparent, crisp, and without blurr, e.g. my Senn HE60.

[hYdrociTy]

Yea the real complaint though is not the way he is leaning sound/design wise, but that he may discontinue the socketed models in favor for that one toob like opamp and teh shortest traces zomg in order to satisfy those who are a bit more susceptible to the mystical.

[Nanoha]

I borrowed a SuperMacro III for a month or so a few years back. I will honestly will have to say that it's one of my favorite commercial portable amplifiers to this day. It wasn't awe-inspiring compared to home amps, but still quite respectable imho.

[boomana]

At the recent Florida meet I listened to four Xin amps, all current (the Reference, the micro, the mini) except for a Macro III I think (least fav so I didn't really pay attention to what it was). When connected to an ipod, they sounded fine, but when hooked up to a dang decent cdp (Lector .06T), their flaws, especially in comparison to other amps really stood out. I spent much of my time going back and forth between the LaRocco Diablo and the Xin Reference, mostly because Al typed a shootout between the two in the title thread, and I am sometimes easily led. Anyway, we were using the sampler K2 HD cd, which is superb for testing gear. The Reference fared the best of the Xins, but showed a lack of definition, most notably in the bottom end. The memory which stood out was on a particular passage with heavy tympani. The Diablo was able to not only present each strike, but the subtle tonal shifts of each. On the Reference, it sounded like one fat, punctuated roll.

The Xins reminded me of the amp equivalent of the Shure SE530s: full, warm(ish) sound, lots of ooomph, decent detail, and some depth. The better Xins sound good, especially with a portable source, which is really the only reason for getting a portable amp that makes sense to me. I understand why folks like them, but they ended up not being for me. I preferred the PRII, SR-71, Diablo, and AE2 over all of them, but then, I'm also an Ety girl, even if I like Shures for a short periods of time.

[DennyL]

I spent an afternoon with another head-fier listening to different types of music through a Xin Reference, alternating between K701s and K340s. These cans are not particularly easy to drive, and the two of us were very impressed, feeling that the Reference was very good for a portable, and was not far short of the quality of a home amp. Of course Dr Xin has continued tweaking the Reference since the one I listened to. I subsequently ordered a Reference. Whether I ever see it is a different question.

[Nanoha]

I spent an afternoon with another head-fier listening to different types of music through a Xin Reference, alternating between K701s and K340s...

Welcome DennyL!

[boomana]

I spent an afternoon with another head-fier listening to different types of music through a Xin Reference, alternating between K701s and K340s.

Hi, DennyL. Welcome. No offense, but what made you guys think that those headphones would be good for evaluating a portable amp? Did you not have any others available, or did you think that by throwing really hard-to-drive headphones at them, it would be one kind of test? Just curious. What headphones do you plan on using when you get it?

[DennyL]

No offence taken . Those were the headphones we happened to have available at the time. I have AKG K701s and Beyer DT880s, as well as Senn PX100s. So, assuming the Reference arrives one day, and I haven't yielded to any headphone-purchase temptations (fighting them off all the time) by then, those are the cans I shall use with it.

Do you have any comments about the compatibility of the Reference with K340s and K701s?

[hYdrociTy]

No offence taken . Those were the headphones we happened to have available at the time. I have AKG K701s and Beyer DT880s, as well as Senn PX100s. So, assuming the Reference arrives one day, and I haven't yielded to any headphone-purchase temptations (fighting them off all the time) by then, those are the cans I shall use with it.

Do you have any comments about the compatibility of the Reference with K340s and K701s?

Look at the big capacitor. It is the promise!

[boomana]

Do you have any comments about the compatibility of the Reference with K340s and K701s?

Suffice it to say that I'm not a big fan of matching portable amps with certain headphones except in a pinch. The 701s are one of those headphones in that they can easily sound thin and dry when driven by even some home amps. I have not heard them sound remotely decent through any portable, and just for kicks, I recently tried at the FL meet mentioned earlier. The best I've heard the K340s is through a friggin' power amp! There's no reason, unless for kicks, to even try to attempt them with a portable. What's the point of getting headphones for a particular sound (I assume), then deliberately under driving them so that there's no way to actually achieve that sound? And again, what's the point of buying an amp that won't do what you need it to (thinking drive the headphones you already have)? That's like buying a hand drill when you need a power one to get the job done. I don't get it.

I like portable amps, own four, and just ordered a Pico. I'm listening to full-sized headphones right now with a portable CDP and amp. They serve a useful purpose and are fun, but they have very real limitations that, at least over on head-fi, people tend to ignore. Someone goes and says the Reference is great, sounds better than some home amps, and everyone just reads what they want into it. If someone raises a logical objection, people then point to all the idiots who said otherwise. It's bullshit.

[elnero]

If someone raises a logical objection, people then point to all the idiots who said otherwise. It's bullshit.

It's because some of them compared a whole pile of amps and are now THE authority. Now those "reviewers" have a following and their opinions are treated like gospel.

[boomana]

It's because some of them compared a whole pile of amps and are now THE authority. Now those "reviewers" have a following and their opinions are treated like gospel.

Right. I know Miguel (mrarroyo) personally, and right down to headphones and the music he likes, we have very different opinions on what sounds good. Both he and Skylab use headphones I'm not even fond of to test gear. How can we possibly come to the same conclusions? The Xin Reference is a good example. Those who don't yet have their own frames of reference will look to them for answers, though. It's just the way it is.

[DennyL]

Suffice it to say that I'm not a big fan of matching portable amps with certain headphones except in a pinch.

If you had a chance of an afternoon to listen to a portable amp and see what you thought of it, what would you do?

The 701s are one of those headphones in that they can easily sound thin and dry when driven by even some home amps. I have not heard them sound remotely decent through any portable

IMO the Xin Reference is a warm-sounding amp, and the K701s sound quite good with it. I also have an RSA SR-71, and I enjoy a lot of music listening to SR-71 + K701.

What's the point of getting headphones for a particular sound (I assume), then deliberately under driving them so that there's no way to actually achieve that sound?

I'm not sure who you are referring to hear. In my post I said that I had an afternoon to listen to a Xin Reference, and the cans available were K701s and K340s.

And again, what's the point of buying an amp that won't do what you need it to (thinking drive the headphones you already have)? That's like buying a hand drill when you need a power one to get the job done. I don't get it.

I can help you with that. I thought the Xin Reference is a great amp at a great price. Also I think Xin is a bit of an eccentric, a perfectionist and craftsman, and I want to own one of his amps (if I ever receive it).

I like portable amps, own four, and just ordered a Pico. I'm listening to full-sized headphones right now with a portable CDP and amp. They serve a useful purpose and are fun, but they have very real limitations that, at least over on head-fi, people tend to ignore.

I think we can all agree that portable amps are fun but they have limitations. Someone please explain to me the source of all this sectarian strife and agression towards Head-fi. We're all boys and girls playing with our toys here. Nothing to get worked up about.

Someone goes and says the Reference is great, sounds better than some home amps,

I missed that post, but I guess it's possible to find a home amp that sounds worse than a Reference, as the reference is pretty good.

[boomana]

If you had a chance of an afternoon to listen to a portable amp and see what you thought of it, what would you do?

Do the same as you, but also get (buy/borrow/steal) some other headphones if I were really testing an amp I was thinking of purchasing. I'd also bring along my own sources and music. If it weren't an amp I was interested in, I'd probably bring lunch or maybe a light dessert along with some tea.

IMO the Xin Reference is a warm-sounding amp, and the K701s sound quite good with it. I also have an RSA SR-71, and I enjoy a lot of music listening to SR-71 + K701.

Okay, good for you. One my my most enjoyable moments in headphoneland was while half-asleep on a sofa at a meet while listening to baseball and bad Creole radio on a Clix2 with an unamped L3000. Perfect enjoyment. That says nothing about the L3000 or the Clix2 and everything about me. I'm sure not going to post about either. I enjoy lots of things (probably too many things), but my enjoyment is often and happily irrelevant.

I'm not sure who you are referring to hear. In my post I said that I had an afternoon to listen to a Xin Reference, and the cans available were K701s and K340s.

All I'm saying is that with those specific headphones, you probably learned little about the amp, and even less about the headphones, and there is absolutely no way you learned anything meaningful at all about what either amp or headphone could do with the K340s plugged in.

I can help you with that. I thought the Xin Reference is a great amp at a great price. Also I think Xin is a bit of an eccentric, a perfectionist and craftsman, and I want to own one of his amps (if I ever receive it).

There's nothing wrong in that, but if you respect his artistry and craftsmanship so much, get some headphones that can show it off.

I think we can all agree that portable amps are fun but they have limitations. Someone please explain to me the source of all this sectarian strife and agression towards Head-fi. We're all boys and girls playing with our toys here. Nothing to get worked up about.

I have no aggression towards head-fi, and like it very much, but I am frustrated by the overwhelming influx of poor choices that are passed off as recommendations by people who either don't bother to do research about what they're buying and what it requires and/or know how to listen to gear and not just music, and then they think they're doing a service by passing their ignorance on to others, when it's really just enthusiasm and a desire to join in with something to say.

It's one thing to like something; it's another to know what you're talking about. Enjoyment is personal, but if there's no frame of reference (read lots of experience), it's egotistical and potentially damaging to to think your opinions matter when stated as fact. That's my beef with head-fi, and btw, I'm totally ignorant when it comes to many things, but I certainly am not posting about how great something is when I know I don't have the background to make such claims.

I missed that post, but I guess it's possible to find a home amp that sounds worse than a Reference, as the reference is pretty good.

There were actually a couple threads I think, but they may have been about the micro not the Reference. I don't really remember. So what if it's a good amp if it can't drive the headphones you own well! How will you even know since you won't be able to hear it right. That's stupid.

[Dusty Chalk]

If I've learned nothing else from Hirsch, probably the single most important thing I've learned from him is the importance of synergy. Yes, there are some amps that drive a lot of different headphones well (my Singlepower), but there are also some headphones that are so finicky, that not only do they need a specific amp, but sometimes they don't even shine until they have a specific source on the other side of that amp. I don't completely understand it, but I have experienced it.

I have no aggression towards head-fi, and like it very much, but I am frustrated by the overwhelming influx of poor choices that are passed off as recommendations by people who either don't bother to do research about what they're buying and what it requires and/or know how to listen to gear and not just music, and then they think they're doing a service by passing their ignorance on to others, when it's really just enthusiasm and a desire to join in with something to say.

Well said.

[lupus]

Do the same as you, but also get (buy/borrow/steal) some other headphones if I were really testing an amp I was thinking of purchasing. I'd also bring along my own sources and music. If it weren't an amp I was interested in, I'd probably bring lunch or maybe a light dessert along with some tea.

Okay, good for you. One my my most enjoyable moments in headphoneland was while half-asleep on a sofa at a meet while listening to baseball and bad Creole radio on a Clix2 with an unamped L3000. Perfect enjoyment. That says nothing about the L3000 or the Clix2 and everything about me. I'm sure not going to post about either. I enjoy lots of things (probably too many things), but my enjoyment is often and happily irrelevant.

All I'm saying is that with those specific headphones, you probably learned little about the amp, and even less about the headphones, and there is absolutely no way you learned anything meaningful at all about what either amp or headphone could do with the K340s plugged in.

There's nothing wrong in that, but if you respect his artistry and craftsmanship so much, get some headphones that can show it off.

I have no aggression towards head-fi, and like it very much, but I am frustrated by the overwhelming influx of poor choices that are passed off as recommendations by people who either don't bother to do research about what they're buying and what it requires and/or know how to listen to gear and not just music, and then they think they're doing a service by passing their ignorance on to others, when it's really just enthusiasm and a desire to join in with something to say.

It's one thing to like something; it's another to know what you're talking about. Enjoyment is personal, but if there's no frame of reference (read lots of experience), it's egotistical and potentially damaging to to think your opinions matter when stated as fact. That's my beef with head-fi, and btw, I'm totally ignorant when it comes to many things, but I certainly am not posting about how great something is when I know I don't have the background to make such claims.

There were actually a couple threads I think, but they may have been about the micro not the Reference. I don't really remember. So what if it's a good amp if it can't drive the headphones you own well! How will you even know since you won't be able to hear it right. That's stupid.

Maybe you should just stick this in your sig and be done with it.

I have no problems with DennyL sharing his opinions about the Xin Reference amp in a Xin amp thread. I also have zero issues with the headphones he used. We make do with what we have. And FWIW, I'm guessing Dr. Xin wouldn't feel his artistry or craftsmanship was insulted by the impressions, either.

[boomana]

Oh lordy, here we go again....wtf is wrong with you? Your interpretation of my post tells me that you either can't read and/or enjoy slanting someone else's words to fit your distorted perceptions.

I like DennyL. Looking at the headphones he owns and the new amp I hope he receives soon, it looks like he's a smart guy interested in good sound. It also seems that he is somewhat new to this hobby and is trying out a whole bunch of stuff, which I also think is pretty wonderful. I have zero problems him posting his impressions, because he's stated the situation in which he heard things, seems truthful about what he likes, and is wiling to frame things in that context. I also like Denny because he asks questions:

Do you have any comments about the compatibility of the Reference with K340s and K701s?

If you had a chance of an afternoon to listen to a portable amp and see what you thought of it, what would you do?

Someone please explain to me the source of all this sectarian strife and agression towards Head-fi.

My response was to his questions only, and had he not asked them, I would have left this thread with my simple answer to the op's request for about impressions of the Xins.

You, on the other hand, are showing you're a fool for jumping into a thread about amps and trying to turn it into something personal about me, and skewing your language to imply I hold opinions never held, except for one:

I also have zero issues with the headphones he used.

If you don't have a problem with K340s being used to test a portable amp for sq, you've either never owned them (in which case you should just shut up), or are an idiot along with being a fool.

[aerius]

A little thought exercise: Which makes more sense, test driving a Ferrari on a test track or doing so in the middle of a rush hour traffic jam?

How about testing out a farm tractor on a racetrack or on an actual field?

[ronnielee54]

Some of us are forced to rely on other peoples opinions. If you live in Bumfuck Egypt like I do, miles from any meets and lack of quality audio retailesr, all you can do is research the hell out of all the forums, try to stay away from FOTM's, and go for it. Was ready to buy Hornet "M" from research done at Head-fi. After finding Head-case, decided to spend another week researching. Ended up buying AE-2. Am very happy with AE-2 so I guess that is all that matters.

[boomana]

Some of us are forced to rely on other peoples opinions

Right, which is why I take issue with much of what I've seen on head-fi recently.

Ended up buying AE-2. Am very happy with AE-2 so I guess that is all that matters.

I think you should be happy. I'd never heard one until the last FL meet, and was pretty impressed. Of all the portable amps I've heard (and there's a boatload I haven't) that are also available (the LaRoccos don't count as available) it was my fav. If I were looking for a portable, the three on my short list would be the AE2, the Pico and the Mini^3, depending on budget and need.

[ronnielee54]

What I take issue with is "Oh my God, these/this is the best (fill in the blank) ever!". Or, they offer an opinion on a product they have never seen nor heard, but they have read other peoples's comments ("I have never heard them but whatshisname sya they are excellent, can't go wrong with them"). WTF!