Balancing an L3000, which are the benefits?

[Tony]

Hi Guys, I'm antonyfirst.

Since before end 2006 my Headfi account didn't even exist, I'll probably change my name to Tony.

A friend of mine is deciding wether to balance his L3000 or not. Knowing how much better the Sennhesiser HD600 and HD650 become in balanced mode, I am very curious about what improvements can benefit the L3000.

Let me know, and let's hope Headfi will get back in a good shape.

Tony

[Tony]

Thanks. So the change might not be night and day.

How much power do the L3000 need?

[Fing]

Lots )

I am loving having the SinglePower Extreme driving the L3000. Not even the DHA3000 could drive them this well. The sound was smoother and tonally better with the DHA3000 but lacked dynamics. Very different flavour with the Extreme, which is very vibrant and mates well with the particular characteristics of the L3000 even at low listening volume, which I prefer.

The Yamamoto HA-02 doesn't do so well in my experience with the L3000.

[Nanoha]

Lots )

I am loving having the SinglePower Extreme driving the L3000. Not even the DHA3000 could drive them this well. The sound was smoother and tonally better with the DHA3000 but lacked dynamics. Very different flavour with the Extreme, which is very vibrant and mates well with the particular characteristics of the L3000 even at low listening volume, which I prefer.

The Yamamoto HA-02 doesn't do so well in my experience with the L3000.

Wait, but isn't that the amp not the balancing?

[Icarium]

I dunno how bad you need the balancing but I would definitely go with [AK]Zips Apuresound v3 cable. I haven't heard it yet myself (Except with Qualias), but I'm heard the v3 vastly improve the highs which is one of the weaker points with the L3000 (Heard this from dwlglhgh)

[Fing]

Wait, but isn't that the amp not the balancing?

You're right and I'm sorry for straying.

I'd love to hear the differences between S/E vs Balanced L3000 with my imminent Supra XLR. Hmmmm.... I have a balanced R10 cable otw. I could recable the L3000 drivers first....

[Nanoha]

You're right and I'm sorry for straying.

Mighty fine amps you have of course.

[909]

sent apuresound this email a few days ago and just waiting to hear back, but also would like to hear what you guys think..

"Hi,

I've got this itch to balance my L3000s by either re-terminating or possibly re-cabling them. Initially, I had thought and believed I would not re-cable these because it seems next to impossible to listen to both the stock and custom cable and then make an informed decision with my own system and ears. There have been certain components and cables I've come across that provide more energy and/or extension in the higher register, which results in premature listening fatigue. In my experience, it is rare to push the ceiling higher with finesse and refinement. Sonically this is my greatest concern, and secondarily, would be the potential of possibly losing too much weight and fulness that the stock cable seems to provide. Here's what I'd consider if I ordered a cable, somewhere between ten to 15 feet, super nylon, and not sure about what options would be available for a four pin XLR (1). Or possibly, and this is what I've been leaning towards until day, just get the stock cable re-terminated. I'd appreciate your input.

Kind regards,

David (909)"

[humanflyz]

I had Alex balance my L3000s when I had them, but that was with a V2 version cable, not the latest. Sonic memory's being what it is, take the following with a grain of salt: I don't remember any drastic improvements, other than slightly more control in the bass, which wasn't a problem to begin with. My system back at the time was an Esoteric DV60 fed to a GS-X, then to the L3000s.

Then JP# bought my L3000s, so you can ask him all about it.

[Torpedo]

It could well be the effect of the Gilmore on the L3000. In my system the L3000 (SE stock cable) show righter bass with the Gilmore Balanced Ref (as far as I know a GS-X with boutique parts, external PS, but not dramatically different) than with the Rudi. It's easily and quickly noticeable.

[swt61]

Tony I've heard both stock and balanced L3000s. Unfortunately not side by side at the same meet. The balanced L3000 were APS V3 recabled w/Farutech XLR jacks. I listened briefly out of my balanced β22.

Again without stock phones to compare directly it's hard to say for sure, but I did not find a large change in SQ. It certainly was not the very noticeable change you get from balancing the Senn. 650, 600, 580 series of headphones.

The L3000 does not require a lot of power to play, but they do scale very well. Better amplification becomes apparent as you scale up.

Edited January 2, 2009 by swt61

[Grand Enigma]

I will echo what nearly everyone has said. There is a slight change/improvement when running the L3ks balanced.

I have had the opportunity to spend extensive time with balanced and unbalanced, reterminated and recabled L3ks and to be perfectly honest they are not worth recableing as the stock cable is quite good and the cost to performance gains ratio really isn't there. The L3ks are no where near as night and day as the HD6xx's.

You will see just much benefit in reterminating the stock cable to balanced as you would with a full balanced recable.

[purk]

I will echo what nearly everyone has said. There is a slight change/improvement when running the L3ks balanced.

I have had the opportunity to spend extensive time with balanced and unbalanced, reterminated and recabled L3ks and to be perfectly honest they are not worth recableing as the stock cable is quite good and the cost to performance gains ratio really isn't there. The L3ks are no where near as night and day as the HD6xx's.

You will see just much benefit in reterminating the stock cable to balanced as you would with a full balanced recable.

Nice to know that. What I found so special about the L3000 is its ability to sound great out of portable source. Heck I would vote the L3000 as the best sounding headphone without amplification!

[Grand Enigma]

Nice to know that. What I found so special about the L3000 is its ability to sound great out of portable source. Heck I would vote the L3000 as the best sounding headphone without amplification!

I have never heard the L3ks sound bad... which is quite a unique trait when it comes to headphones.

[Voltron]

Tony-

Tell your friend to just reterminate the L3000 balanced if he already has a balanced amp and if he doesn't the he should not bother to reterminate and acquire and balanced amp.

David-

Just reterminate them with a good quality connector so you can take full advantage of the HD2.

I have had the L3000s on loan a could of times. First was stock and s/e and second was humanfly's/JP's recabled and balanced pair. I like the cans but long term do not love them, but in any event I agree with the majority here that recabling didn't make a big difference at all and that balancing had some apparent benefits in tightening up things a bit (bass especially iirc). Sound signature didn't really change, which is why I don't think the recable was as responsible for that slight improvement as the balancing.

Nice that one of our cable making MOTs was willing to state his opinions honestly as he always seems to do. Good on ya' Zach.

[Dusty Chalk]

I have heard the L3000's sound less than superb, but I've also heard them sound their absolute best single-ended ([at the time] tkam's out of the Dragon).

By all means, go balanced if you have the amp.

[Smeggy]

I've only ever heard them SE so can't say. Nice phones though.

[pabbi1]

I heard the same balanced pair Steve did, but out of my Millett Max / Opus rig, and have heard L3000 SE on a couple of occasions as well out of my HA-2. I agree with the consensus that there was a little something extra, but not a whole lot. So, if you have only a balanced amp / source would it make sense. AT seems to give a shit about their cable which may be why there is little difference.

[d_rayman]

doesn't this thread start in 2007? :palm:

[Elephas]

That's OK, there isn't much talk about the L3000 anyway.

I have an L3000 recabled with a balanced APS v3 cable. I use it with an adapter because I don't have a balanced amp yet.

I've compared it with a stock L3000 and I thought the recabled unit sounded better. More open, a bit more air and a larger soundstage. A bit less bass quantity too, but tighter and even more accurate bass.

The differences weren't large, but they were enough that I thought the recable was worth doing.

[swt61]

doesn't this thread start in 2007? :palm:

Ah, I missed that small tidbit.

In the immortal words of Rosanne Rosanna Dana..."never mind".

[Knuckledragger]

In the immortal words of Rosanne Rosanna Dana..."never mind".

Nonono, that was Emily Litella!

Hulu - Saturday Night Live: Weekend Update: Emily Litella on Violins on TV@@AMEPARAM@@http://www.hulu.com/embed/KacirLLXwAYWe08_-ZZilw@@AMEPARAM@@KacirLLXwAYWe08_-ZZilw

[swt61]

Yes, you're right Sir, thanks for the correction. It's been a long time and I got her two characters confused. I miss her.

[Knuckledragger]

I miss her.

x2. Gilda was a gem.

[Voltron]

doesn't this thread start in 2007? :palm:

True, but 909 just asked a question about the same topic in 2009. If you are going to do 3 facepalms, you might want to read to the whole thing...:palm::palm: