November NYC meet impressions

[The Monkey]

Nice to see everyone today. USG, thanks very much for the name tags; they turned out great.

[Salt Peanuts]

The lack of impressions is disturbing.

Well, I'm not sure how many guys from here made the meet. I couldn't make it since I just had too much crap to get done. I know Nate and Ian went, but IIRC, they were talking staying over and driving back on Sunday, so I don't know if they have access to computer yet. Even if they went home after the meet, they'd getting home right about now.

[Iron_Dreamer]

Perhaps there's a lack of impressions because HF is down right now? Or is that just me?

[n_maher]

Well, I'm not sure how many guys from here made the meet. I couldn't make it since I just had too much crap to get done. I know Nate and Ian went, but IIRC, they were talking staying over and driving back on Sunday, so I don't know if they have access to computer yet. Even if they went home after the meet, they'd getting home right about now.

I just got home now, Ian won't be home for another 25 minutes or so. We're both wrecked and I'm only typing to keep myself up long enough to drink some much needed water. Great meet, some impressions will be Casino limited. Speaking of which, The Monkey is a worthy candidate for access.

[boomana]

I just got home now, Ian won't be home for another 25 minutes or so. We're both wrecked and I'm only typing to keep myself up long enough to drink some much needed water. Great meet, some impressions will be Casino limited. Speaking of which, The Monkey is a worthy candidate for access.

So....?

Being wrecked is prime time to start the impressions.

[Janus]

Hi! headfi is down right now, so I think I'll just post impressions here! The good folks at the meet pointed me to this site, as I didn't know there were other headphone forums!

First of all, before I can gather all my memories, here are a brief list of things that stuck in my mind as specially worth mentioning:

• The Pico(dac+amp) out of someone's laptop -> er4s I came with huge expectations, and knew I would be dissapoited especially because ever time I know something will be fabulous and perfect, I would always overestimate the thing. The Pico though..... It were as if all the hidden impact and lushness suddenly woke up in the etys. Like how the kiss from a prince wakes up the beautiful princess. My findings of extreme transparency, layering, and microdetail were confirmed with full sized senns. The soundstage wasn't bad either . I came. I listened. I loved.
  
• So many meridians....
  
• The SR325 Balanced out of the balanced small amp (forgot the name) and the toaster supra. These are the grados that I could live with- I liked them better than the hp series, especially out of the supra. I didn't catch the source.
  
• HD650 out of balanced mini three, with Hertsens Signature Dac as source and some Arcam cd player as transport. The owner and creator, Nate, told me the price of the little balanced amp and I couldn't believe how great it was. Honestly, at first I did not feel for it, but after hearing an apache out of a G08, with the same headphones and cd, I came to appreciate how much better the two one-of-a-kind boxes were. Real giant killer.
  
• HE90. Third time with these headphones. I did not think much of them until now. I am seasoned enough to realize these are just about the most natural sounding headphones out there. Pushed by ES1, sourced by meridian.
  
  
  
  Some things that didn't surprise me at all:
  
  
  • The Predator in dac mode with HD600. They sounded very energetic. Overall impression was a very congested Hornet that was then limited by some kind of mid-fi dac. I recognized the sound signature of both the dac and amp section in a heartbeat. A friend of mine told me to compare the predator and pico for her, and even try to measure it- but do to technical difficulties(her bad directions on how to use RMAA) and lack of time, I did not get to compare both "technically." BUT. I did not need to. It was hinted that the Predator will also be ~500. They do not belong in the same pricepoint. One sounds like a home component and the other sounds like a beat up hornet gasping for air, being pulled down by the weight of the mediocre dac. I believe it would compete better with the likes of the total bithead.
    
  • The Pico amp section. I recognized the sound signature of the amp section, and it is most likely the weaker link. The dac is strong, but to ask for any better amp section would be stupid because of the size and intended usage. All in all, it sounded good, and sounded better than many of the high price luxury name stationary setups there.

  Some things that I did not particularly enjoy:

  [*]K1000 out of Apache. Abysmal does not begin to describe the shortcomings. Granted the minithree balanced did not fare much better either- but it was sad because the Apache power supply was Dual Mono and looked huge compared to the pathetic little dual power supply in the minithree bal(two power supplies from one wall wart?)

  [*]The take t2. Boy it was dark, deep, and just.. cavernous sounding. I remember awhile back during an urban expedition where we explored the abandoned subways under Rochester. The sheer blackness and spaciousness just overwhelmed me. That was the first thing I felt with this pezio/transformer setup. The setup was T2+transformer <- Dared MP5 speaker out <- Meridian something (508 most likely).

  [*]Sony R10 out of anything. I cannot see how this thing is "reference" level.

  [*]Westone3 out of ipod+alo lod+ portable amp(romanee's amp). The ipod and amp and cable were fine. The iems on the other hand were not very enjoyable for all the hype. The only upside is it's well integration between highs all the way down to the abundant lows. There was not a hint of discontinuity. Then again, the whole sound signature reminded me of E500's but dipped in syrup. Slow, with thin highs just trying to peek out of the dense fog. Much more natural than the E500 but then not much else going for it besides that.

  More impressions in a little while..

[postjack]

Welcome to head-case Janus! My compliments to your writing ability, I could really see and hear the things you were describing. Thanks for your impressions!

[tkam]

• Sony R10 out of anything. I cannot see how this thing is "reference" level.

Nice another member of the "R10 sucks" club. Welcome

[boomana]

Sony R10 out of anything. I cannot see how this thing is "reference" level.

Nice another member of the "R10 sucks" club. Welcome

tkam is not only the President of the "R10 Sucks Club," he's also a client. they do pretty much suck.

All your ears are broken!

[Janus]

nope, we just like bass and realistic sound stages

it's interesting that the President and Vice President (tkam and me, respectively) of the R10 Sucks Club have both more or less abandoned headphones for speakers, which might have something to do with our disdain of the R10s. or maybe not, who knows.

[jinp6301]

nothing new to report on this end.

Pico sounded damn good. Ian's modded HF-1s were probably the best non-vintage grado I've heard so far. Nate's balanced mini32 was pretty nice for what it is, but the 650s out of them were begging for more. The Woo Audio stuff was great. The new Singlepower stuff looks completely different then their older amps casewise and sounds a lot cleaner then the older tube stuff. Upstateguy's M3 built by thrice (the orange LED was an easy giveaway) was probably my favorite amp that I could actually afford at that meet. They drove my grados beautifully.

[Janus]

Right the singlepower "transparency" solid state preamp with volume control was a fine piece of sound. I didn't get much time with it, but it was up there with the big toys. Again, it was connected to a meridian... The design totally took a turn for the modern. The display screen and skeletal front panel gave a different feel than the usual overbuilt glossy black pieces.

The Krell headphone amp with external power supply was really something too. The bass was absolutely visceral, as expected of krell. The krell too input from the ack dack, which I was no too fond of. I would love to hear the amp again, with more familiar and preferred sources next time.

What is it with the omnipresent meridians.....Do dvd roms and opamp output stages synergize well or something?

[Janus]

No it wasn't the squarewave. The thing was actually called "transparent" or "transparency." Either that or they just wrote the words on the front panel for some reason. It was a giant chassis, maybe 25 inches wide by 6~8 inches tall if i remember correctly. It was solid state, and was a preamp/headphone amp with a numeric display on the front, and comes with a remote control. I think there were more than one boxes. It was like a "system" or something if I'm not mistaken, because next to it, was another box- with maybe two dozen bnc connectors....

[Janus]

the syrupy, sloppy G08 sound signature helps make whatever is connected to it sound better than it would with a more neutral, resolving source.

Maybe that is why the player was used in the "challenge" where people were asked to differentiate between the G08 and the predator. I did not take the "challenge" because I did believe they would sound the same. That was probably the intention of the challenge, I think maybe 10 people chose the predator dac over the two who chose dac off (meridian out). That was pretty sad.... Then again at least the predator dac was "voiced" for the amp, while the meridian to the predator amp section was probably the most random thing ever...in the negative sense.

I think many others couldn't tell between the two. I myself did not need to "tell" or be "challenged." All I did was plug the etys into the predator and after maybe a few minutes of disjointed imaging and very distorted presentation- I removed the iems in horror. With K701's plugged in which presented a tough load, the bass disappeared. Obviously the Senn's fared well but that would be akin to saying well a big slow ups truck is REALLY good at carrying packages so I will get one instead of a nice sedan that does everything well.

[Dusty Chalk]

you get to be assistant vice president

Can I be treasurer? We ought to be rolling in dough since we're not spending thousands of dollars on ridiculous headphones.

[Upstateguy]

oh, hmm, i definitely haven't seen that! nobody here as a picture of it?

I have a picture of part of it

USG

[deepak]

nope, we just like bass and realistic sound stages

it's interesting that the President and Vice President (tkam and me, respectively) of the R10 Sucks Club have both more or less abandoned headphones for speakers, which might have something to do with our disdain of the R10s. or maybe not, who knows. i'm personally a fan of headphones that play to the strengths of the headphone platform, instead of trying to break the limitations at the expense of said strengths. all the Sony phones i've tried (R-10s, Qualias, CD3000s and SA5000s) have done this, to one extent or another.

I'll join you jerks soon. I guess that makes me an admin too?

Speakers ftw

[n_maher]

oh, hmm, i definitely haven't seen that! nobody here as a picture of it?

Uploading pictures now...

[Salt Peanuts]

Uploading pictures now...

Nice!

Nate, by any chance you tried out the Woo amp (WA 5, I think) with K1000 jack?

[n_maher]

You know, I didn't try any of the Woo gear.

[Salt Peanuts]

Ahh, the Dog smilie.

I like the dear-in-the-headlight look of too.

[xand1x]

HOW WAS THE HERTSENS DAC?

[mjg]

hey... cool meet, despite leaving empty amp handed once again... whatever. I never get great impressions of gear a t meets. but i was able to tell that the l3000's aren't like as good as alot of you act, i wasn't blown away. the edition 9's were the most uncomfortable ehadphines i ever tried. I did like some of the new amps, there really weren't very many great sources there. My favorite trig there was that k1000 with the woo audio 300b tube amp... was really nice.

[n_maher]

Yikes, either I didn't take as many pictures as I thought I did or somehow pictures got deleted from my camera??!??!

[en480c4]

Wuhoo, belated impressions. I hit the road around 7 AM, Nate and I were eating lunch in Babylon by noon and we were back on the road by 7:15 PM. Quite the way to get to know the car I just picked up Monday!

It was a great meet, though I didn't listen to much in the way of amps or sources... Most of my time was spent listening to headphones. I was really trying to get a feel for what my HF-1s do well and what other headphones do better or worse. Unless otherwise noted, the following impressions are based on my admittedly (very) modest rig of a Denon DCD-815 CD Player -> Denon DA-500 DAC (via Outlaw Audio Pure Silver Coax) -> Millett Hybrid with diamond buffers, STEPS & Tung Sol 12FK6 tubes (via Outlaw Audio PCA Interconnects).

Ari (aka Nikongod) had a great collection of vintage Grados, and this seemed like the perfect place to start my listening.

• A pair of original (brown headband pre-serial number) RS-1s were my first listen, and these are going to make me take back everything bad I've ever said about the RS-1. Smooth highs with great detail and resolution, great in-your-face mids that sounded excellent with cello-based music and female vocals, and bass that extends just deep enough, with great speed and impact and most importantly, great low-end detail, all with a great pair of very comfortable beat up bowls. I think my modded HF-1s go a little lower, but without the resolution. But even with the pleasant surprise that this RS-1 was, I'd have to say that the improvements are definitely in that last 5% range, and not something I feel compelled to upgrade to right away. Of course, given how hard the old RS-1s are to find, it's not like it's something I could do on a whim anyway. So at this point I definitely thought I was losing my mind, so I tracked down someone's later RS-1. I could not keep them on my head for more than 10 seconds... Everything I've ever hated about them was there. Harsh, sibilant highs, peaky mids, and an overall sound signature that, even on my warm-ish rig, sounded was so grating that I was worried I was going to break them trying to get them off my head so quickly!
• HP-1000 (with flats) are as good as everyone says they are. I found them to be very well balanced, a very detailed treble presentation that has great resolution but never comes across as harsh or bright, with slightly more mild mids than the usual Grados, and again, great bass that has the impact, speed and detail to convey everything you throw at it. And I was pleasantly surprised by the comfort... They just disappeared on my head, which is no small feat.
• Black 325 (with flats) are the best 325 in my experience, and they were the first, which makes you wonder why they were changed (twice) since. I thought these were a great headphone, and did everything I always hear people rave about the 225 doing.
• Headphiled SR-200 (with the 200 drivers and flats) were a fun little can. I can't say it was particularly balanced or refined, but it had a presentation, and especially a bass slam that was just grooving!

I should also note that Ari's toaster Supra was amazing with my HF-1. I would've liked to have spent more time with it, but once I heard it I knew if I listened too much I would've been left wanting.

I was really looking forward to some of the ATs I saw there. There were both a W5000 and an L3000, and I hate to say it, but neither really impressed me that much. I'm guessing some if it had to do with the Millett not being the best amp for them. But I definitely felt that something was just off about them. I thought the treble presentation was great on the W5000... Smooth, detailed, great air and separation. Mid-mids (is this even a term?) and lower mids were pleasant enough, but struck me as a bit recessed. Bass response was only adequate, with great low-level detail but no real impact or slam. But the real problem were the upper mids. They were very peaky and seemed almost honky, especially with female vocals. And because they are soooooo forward, the whole rest of the sound seemed pushed back. I definitely heard this out of Nate's balanced amp, too. I liked the L3000s a lot more. They didn't have any glaring faults, though I didn't come away that impressed with them, either. Even out of my modest rig, I expected a lot more given the comination of reviews and going price these have seen. These would have to sound considerably better on a higher-end system for me to really get excited about these.

I finally had a chance to hear the Denon D5000 and came away pleasantly surprised. They strike me as a fairly well-balanced headphone, with a pretty even response across the board. They seem to have a little trouble with faster, more complex music, but they sounded quite good accurately reproducing texture and atmosphere in darker, moodier pieces that had lots of layers of distorted and acoustic guitars, effects, vocals and drums. I'd almost consider these a poor-man's L3000, with a similar presentation, but not as technically proficient. If I ever need closed headphones for home use I'd consider these, knowing I'd still be relying on the HF-1 for faster, more complex music.

I also finally listened to the Edition 9s and that was an interesting experience. When I first put them on, I was thinking they didn't sound too bad. Of course, that was on an unfamiliar system (Boozebutton's Theta, Ack! DAC and Krell amp) with a CD I didn't know. Once I put in a CD I know and love, everything that people who don't like the E9s have said started to sound true. I found the treble to be forward and grainy, the mids to be recessed, and the bass, while kind of fun at first, to get really old, really fast. The more I listened, the more I got used to the weird voicing and soundstage, but once I went back and listened to a more traditional headphone, it was almost impossible to go back to the E9s. One other note... I was less than impressed with the build quality and aesthetic aspects of the E9, despite what I had read. I thought the headband was awkward and while not flimsy, it didn't inspire much confidence. And the chrome-plated plastic looked good from about 3 feet away, but up close it looked and felt cheap.

I also got to listen to Nate's Herstens again, which is always a pleasure. The balanced mini32 is quite the little package, and it gives a good taste for what balanced can do for the HD-650s. And to think that it didn't exist this time last week. Nicely done, Nate... You're a mad man!

Other than that, I did a little listening here and there. I came away from the Apache/Meridian thinking it sounded pretty good, but not necessarily $3000 good. Other than the toaster, I didn't listen to any of the Singlepower stuff. I wanted to swing by the corner with all of the Woo gear all day, but never made it. And every effort to hear the O2 or HE90 was thwarted by them both being occupied. Oh well, maybe next time.

But it was an excellent opportunity to talk gear, put faces to the names and meet some great people. The drive was definitely worthwhile, and I'm glad we made the run.