What do you think of "markl Mod for Denon AH-D5000" thread?

[JBLoudG20]

Do you mean a B-52?

Noob.

[deepak]

Do you mean a B-52? I thought you guys hate RS over here?

The β22 is a very high quality DIY solid state amp ala the Dynahi.

Information: http://www.amb.org/audio/beta22/

[Dusty Chalk]

I don't think there was anything wrong with it. He gave me two sets of tubes to play with and they had the same result.

I guarantee you there was something wrong. Not necessarily a tube -- perhaps a cap burnt out, a diode gone bad...something. Admittedly, I never spent a lot of time with Hirsch's R10s, but I never heard clipping. And Hirsch has spent a lot of time with his R10s, and he would not tolerate it. I'm sure of it.

[aerius]

I think a key factor is that markl listens with the volume cranked up to "11", while as far as I know, Hirsch does not.

[Mastergill]

I've owned an Earmax, Earmax Pro, MicroZOTL, Melos Maestro, and was sent a RS Stealth and Raptor for review. I was also recently sent some Singlepower amp in the old-school case that totally crapped out when trying to drive the R10 and the JVC DX1000. Maybe he's beefed up the power on those amps, but from what I can see even his most expensive two-box amp uses the same puny tubes as the unit I was sent. I would sure hate to spend $10K or whatever only to find it could only drive my headphones to about 70db before clipping like crazy.

These are just toyz. Try some serious tube amps one of these days, preferably with speakers.

[Guest sacd lover]

I've owned an Earmax, Earmax Pro, MicroZOTL, Melos Maestro, and was sent a RS Stealth and Raptor for review. I was also recently sent some Singlepower amp in the old-school case that totally crapped out when trying to drive the R10 and the JVC DX1000. Maybe he's beefed up the power on those amps, but from what I can see even his most expensive two-box amp uses the same puny tubes as the unit I was sent. I would sure hate to spend $10K or whatever only to find it could only drive my headphones to about 70db before clipping like crazy.

This has been covered many times. The SP amps using 6SN7 output tubes wont drive low impedence headphones to high levels.The fact you listen at high volumes only excerbates the problem. The SP amps can be fitted with a number of output tubes besides the original 6SN7GT's .... like the 5687/ 6BL7GTA/6BX7GT. If you want a SP amp that can drive ANY low impedence headphones try one using high voltage 6BL7GTA's or go with the Extreme.

[purk]

MarkL,

This has been covered many times. The SP amps using 6SN7 output tubes wont drive low impedence headphones to high levels.The fact you listen at high volumes only excerbates the problem. The SP amps can be fitted with a number of output tubes besides the original 6SN7GT's .... like the 5687/ 6BL7GTA/6BX7GT. If you want a SP amp that can drive ANY low impedence headphones try one using high voltage 6BL7GTA's or go with the Extreme.

I went through that process before. When I first got my R10, my SDS w/ 6SN7 tubes didn't do a good job at driving them. In fact, my HA2002 was doing a better job driving my R10 than my 6SN7 SDS. I bite the bullet and got the amp upgraded w/ high voltage option to run the 6BL7GT as well getting some tube adapters, and the improvement has been very night and day. I'm now running my SDS with the following tube combo for my R10s: Slyvania 6BL7GTs/GTAs as output and GE 12AY7GT or Tungsol 2C51 as a driver tubes.

Markl...I'm sorry to see that you are letting go of your R10. I wish you spend $1800 bucks and check out the Extreme Platinum w/ the R10 before selling them. Regarding the case, the retailed price for the carring case for the R10 is around $450 but Sony no longer has any more in stock. I searched for the case high/low from Sony & partstores.com and didn't find any.

[Dusty Chalk]

The SP amps using 6SN7 output tubes wont drive low impedence headphones to high levels.

The key to this sentence being "...to high levels", since I've listened on both Grados and Audio-Technicas on my SP amp (which is a 6SN7 model).

[philodox]

I was also recently sent some Singlepower amp in the old-school case that totally crapped out when trying to drive the R10 and the JVC DX1000. Maybe he's beefed up the power on those amps, but from what I can see even his most expensive two-box amp uses the same puny tubes as the unit I was sent. I would sure hate to spend $10K or whatever only to find it could only drive my headphones to about 70db before clipping like crazy.

There must have been something wrong with that amp... I mean, the R10's aren't even all that hard to drive.

I think a key factor is that markl listens with the volume cranked up to "11", while as far as I know, Hirsch does not.

Even so, with the R10's being a relatively easy load, he would have to listen at levels that would make MY ears bleed... and I'd have to hear that to believe it.

[purk]

There must have been something wrong with that amp... I mean, the R10's aren't even all that hard to drive. ???Even so, with the R10's being a relatively easy load, he would have to listen at levels that would make MY ears bleed... and I'd have to hear that to believe it.

The bass light R10 is the most difficult to drive headphone I've heard. I had to upgrade my 6SN7 SDS to high voltage to drive the bass light R10 properly.

[philodox]

Hmmm, didn't seem difficult at all to drive when I heard it at the TO meet. Not sure if Ray has the bass light or bass heavy version though.

Then again, I was listening on the B52, the apache and my amp, so I don't *really* have any clue how hard they are to drive... The B52 and apache may not be stellar designs, but they put out a fair amount of voltage swing and current AFAIK. I guess I was just under the impression that they weren't that hard to drive...

As for them being the hardest headphone to drive... I take it you don't have much experience with the K340 or K1000?

[Dusty Chalk]

Well, it should be known -- what he means is that they scale even more than bastards. You really need a high-current amp to get them to shine. It's not that they'll distort or compress or sound bad or anything with lesser amperage, it's just that they won't sound as good, perhaps a little bland (alright, that counts as "sounding bad", but I hope you understand my meaning -- it's not "off" or "ill" sounding, just...not as good).

[philodox]

Oh, they scale. I love that word.

[Dusty Chalk]

Yes, we know.

I think we all love that word.

[purk]

Hmmm, didn't seem difficult at all to drive when I heard it at the TO meet. Not sure if Ray has the bass light or bass heavy version though.

Then again, I was listening on the B52, the apache and my amp, so I don't *really* have any clue how hard they are to drive... The B52 and apache may not be stellar designs, but they put out a fair amount of voltage swing and current AFAIK. I guess I was just under the impression that they weren't that hard to drive...

As for them being the hardest headphone to drive... I take it you don't have much experience with the K340 or K1000?

If you have the two versions of the R10s side-by-side in a controlled environment, you will agree with me. Ray's R10 is the bassier pair. What I can offer you guys is just my experience with them and the lighter bass version is much more difficult to drive in my opinion. I had Tom Hankins over to listen to them in many occasions and we agreed on our finding.

[purk]

Hmmm, didn't seem difficult at all to drive when I heard it at the TO meet. Not sure if Ray has the bass light or bass heavy version though.

Then again, I was listening on the B52, the apache and my amp, so I don't *really* have any clue how hard they are to drive... The B52 and apache may not be stellar designs, but they put out a fair amount of voltage swing and current AFAIK. I guess I was just under the impression that they weren't that hard to drive...

If you have the two versions of the R10s side-by-side in a controlled environment for a year, you might agree with my findings. As for Ray's R10, I believe it is the bassier pair. What I can offer you guys is just my experience with them and the lighter bass version is much more difficult to drive and my SDS 6SN7 was not be able to supply enough juice to make them sound their best. I had Tom Hankins over to listen to them in many occasions and we agreed on our finding.

[hirsch]

If you have the two versions of the R10s side-by-side in a controlled environment, you will agree with me. Ray's R10 is the bassier pair. What I can offer you guys is just my experience with them and the lighter bass version is much more difficult to drive in my opinion. I had Tom Hankins over to listen to them in many occasions and we agreed on our finding.

I've never heard Ray's pair, but I owned both versions for a long time. I finally decided that I really didn't like the compressed sound stage of the "bass heavy" version, particularly compared to the older R10's, sold it, and kept my two older ones. That said, it is a bitch to drive them properly. When they don't get enough amperage, the low end drops out almost completely. After that, it can clip.

If you look at published specs, the R10 can suck more current than the K-1000, although its voltage demands are less.

[philodox]

Interesting, now I just need to find someone to lend me a bass shy R10. That should be easy.

[purk]

Interesting, now I just need to find someone to lend me a bass shy R10. That should be easy.

You probably will need someone to lend you an amp to drive them too. They are the most demanding headphone I've heard. I had to tweak my system around to make them sound at their best, but once they do...they are second only to the HE90, imo.

[philodox]

Ummm, my amp puts out some decent current... it is certainly optimized for voltage swing, but no slouch in driving Grado's and the like.

[Mastergill]

And now the great markl wants someone who lend him two (!) D5000 to try some mods that cannot be undone...I'm speechless...

[jellybones]

I'm calling it right now..people are gonna line up to send him their 'phones.