What do you think of "markl Mod for Denon AH-D5000" thread?

[postjack]

nevermind, got it! time to delete the old chart, thanks jpak.

[philodox]

Ask KG. He designed one some time back, but I don't remember how far along the build process got.

I almost built it [or had you/Renato build it for me rather ]... the only bitch is finding tube sockets that don't melt if I remember correctly.

[Dusty Chalk]

Lots of headphones scale well. I doubt I've ever considered it a negative that a headphone will sound better with a better amp regardless of whether or not that it is "inferior to itself" or whatever.

That's why I added the qualifier "necessarily".

At least, we can agree that we enjoy our A100ti quite a good bit right?

Meh, I guess -- mine needs new pads, and I bent/broke the 1/8" pin. I guess I like it enough to keep it so far. Do you still have yours?

[Icarium]

That's why I added the qualifier "necessarily"

Oh. Okay, I'll amend my statement to "I think the ability to scale well is always a good thing."

[CD44hi]

Sorry, just can't help but comment on good ole Lou (ltucci1924). I hope he is okay, considering that 1924 is the year of his birth, from what I understood about him. Obviously in his old age he was getting a bit senile, but gotta love the crazy old man that stirs up crap. I have not seen any of his posts in a while though, which leads me to believe he is probably laying low for a bit while he recovers.

Actually, 1924 or whatever, is part of his street address. I know that because I once made the mistake of selling him an amp. Worst transaction in H-F history. He may be a good seller, but not a good buyer IMO.

I also saw him once at a philly meet: he is old, but not 83...

[purk]

Actually, 1924 or whatever, is part of his street address. I know that because I once made the mistake of selling him an amp. Worst transaction in H-F history. He may be a good seller, but not a good buyer IMO.

I also saw him once at a philly meet: he is old, but not 83...

He is in his late 60's I think. I had problem selling my maxed PPA too, but then again that is all over with. I only wish he has a successful open heart surgery.

[Dusty Chalk]

Oh. Okay, I'll amend my statement to "I think the ability to scale well is always a good thing."

Do you really think that having a HD600 or HD650 scaling well is a good thing if all you had was a cheap MP3 player with a miserable headphone out -- no amp, nothing else? If you do, fine, but I disagree -- I think there's a threshold below which you may not want to go. I do not think that having an "upper-mid-fi" rig would be bad with Senns -- I recently recommended exactly that with an AudioValve RKV here recently, but I specified the circumstances that I thought it would not work well, both in this post and in the post when I initially made the statement.

[purk]

Do you really think that having a HD600 or HD650 scaling well is a good thing if all you had was a cheap MP3 player with a miserable headphone out -- no amp, nothing else? If you do, fine, but I disagree -- I think there's a threshold below which you may not want to go. I do not think that having an "upper-mid-fi" rig would be bad with Senns -- I recently recommended exactly that with an AudioValve RKV here recently, but I specified the circumstances that I thought it would not work well, both in this post and in the post when I initially made the statement.

The RKV MRII is a remarkable amp especially with the HD-650 (w/ upgrade cable), K1000, and many others. It is one of most versatile amp if you have the impedancer. I really like my time with the RKV. Sadly not many people know of them any more.

[Icarium]

Do you really think that having a HD600 or HD650 scaling well is a good thing if all you had was a cheap MP3 player with a miserable headphone out -- no amp, nothing else? If you do, fine, but I disagree -- I think there's a threshold below which you may not want to go. I do not think that having an "upper-mid-fi" rig would be bad with Senns -- I recently recommended exactly that with an AudioValve RKV here recently, but I specified the circumstances that I thought it would not work well, both in this post and in the post when I initially made the statement.

I don't think the fact that the HD6X0 scales well has anything to do with poor performance when used in conjunction with a cheap mp3 player with a miserable headphone out. Would the Denon D5000 (Which me and purk at the very least feel does not scale well) sound good out of that mp3 player? I don't think so. I don't think any full sized headphone will sound very good out of there. In fact even highly efficient IEMs probably will probably sound pretty lousy. You call that correlation between poor performance with inadequate power scaling? I guess you can.

Imo there is a difference between something that scales well and headphones that simply need a little bit more power than some things provide. Will Denons sound better out of an amp than a mp3 players headphone out. Yes. Does that mean that it scales? Well semantically you can call that scaling, but I wouldn't. Well compare performance between a largely well-considered higher end amp and the amp that simply feeds it enough power and if you feel "Hrm not much difference." Then imo it does not scale well. I feel the HD6X0 are a little bit more transparent in the regard that they will convey the step up in amps and hence I say they scale well.

[Dusty Chalk]

Actually, I have used a Sony MDR-V6/-7506 straight out of a laptop's soundcard -- it sounded a little bright and rough around the edges, but not that much different than it would out of an amp. (I.E. I don't think it scales much at all -- the roughness would go away with a different source, but that's about it.)

Also, I've used a pair of Etymotic ER-6i's directly out of a Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox 3, and it sounded surprisingly good for portable audio -- I've stated before that if you're not going to use an amp, then that's the way to go for entry level IEM's and portable audio.

So I guess I was arguing with the general statement, since that's the direction you took this debate, and not specifically with the Denons, whose scaling I have little experience with.

[Icarium]

Alright that's fair.

Basically my view on scaling is based on the constant need to upgrade that most people have Very few genuinely have 0 desire to step out of the entry level-low end and most of the people that are actually satisfied are at least at the mid-upper-mid range. So if you plan to upgrade or on some level know that you are (Even if you can't afford it) I think buying gear that scales will always pay off and I think that constitutes a large portion, possibly the majority, of the vocal population on head-fi/head-case. So maybe it's not as general as I made it out to be I admit that. I'd like to think having gear that scales is a burden to very few people.

[Dusty Chalk]

I'd like to think having gear that scales is a burden to very few people.

Agreed.

[Fing]

After 2 weeks in postal limbo, my Denon D5000 finally arrived.

I wasted no time plugging them in and noticing that yes, flabby, overwhelming bass is present.

Went to work putting in some Dynamat on the wooden cups, around the driver and even on the headphone frame.

Also put in a small quantity of the Mountain Mist polyester fibre inside each earcup as dampening material.

Finally stuffed some foam into the earpads to pad them out and provide extra soundstage.

Result?

Much tighter bass, not so overwhelming but still a touch too strong.

The mids have become considerably recessed, though still clear.

The treble is very present and slightly piercing.

I think we have our classic ultrasone smile, which I personally hate.

My L3000 can rest easy in their AT stand. Much more enjoyable to listen to.

The D5000 have zero burn-in so the character may change (I hope). Not really enjoying listening to them through Paradisea and SP Extreme.

Will see if things change when I take them home and listen to them through Wavelength Crimson -> Yamamoto HA-02. The Yamamoto is supposed to have a better synergy with the D5000 so will post when I try it through them.

[Dusty Chalk]

What were you testing them out with?

[Fing]

What were you testing them out with?

Music wise?

A variety of music. Gomez, Zero 7, Massive Attack, Verdi's Requiem, Goldfrapp.

[en480c4]

After 2 weeks in postal limbo, my Denon D5000 finally arrived.

I wasted no time plugging them in and noticing that yes, flabby, overwhelming bass is present.

Went to work <snip>

Result? <snip>

The D5000 have zero burn-in so the character may change (I hope). Not really enjoying listening to them through Paradisea and SP Extreme.

If you don't mind me asking, why did you bother doing mods to a new pair of cans which you believe will change with burn in based on initial impressions from a quick listen directly out of the box? Why not let them settle in and figure out what mods might be required next? Or am I missing something? Did you have have experience with them, knew you didn't like them but were hopeful that modding them would make them to your liking?

[grawk]

If you don't mind me asking, why did you bother doing mods to a new pair of cans which you believe will change with burn in based on initial impressions from a quick listen directly out of the box? Why not let them settle in and figure out what mods might be required next? Or am I missing something? Did you have have experience with them, knew you didn't like them but were hopeful that modding them would make them to your liking?

That's easy, because someone on headfi said you should.

[n_maher]

That's easy, because someone on headfi said you should.

What is this 'headfi' you speak of?

[pabbi1]

Yeah, without Head-fi, I'm kinda rudderless... just think how impotent the poor mods must feel, with no posts to delete, and no users to ban.

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

More so, why would you do mods on it that aren't easily reversible.

Not to mention Markl listens at deafening levels and has peculiar tastes.

Biggie.

[Fing]

If you don't mind me asking, why did you bother doing mods to a new pair of cans which you believe will change with burn in based on initial impressions from a quick listen directly out of the box? Why not let them settle in and figure out what mods might be required next? Or am I missing something? Did you have have experience with them, knew you didn't like them but were hopeful that modding them would make them to your liking?

Because they were unlistenable as they were.

If I could have stood waiting for "burn in" to happen, then I would have, but I wanted to at least enjoy them now rather than some unspecified time in the future. As it stood, I knew I didn't want to listen to them at all in stock form. Modified, they are not too bad.

An additional reason was because I really wanted to see if these mods worked or not.

To me they are a partial success. It's just tipped it the other way.

I am able to reverse some of the mods. The dynamat is pretty sticky so will probably stay on. A bit of an oops on my part - I should have used blu-tack instead. However I do think that dampening resonances as generally a good thing so I'm not too concerned either way.

[Dusty Chalk]

Music wise?

A variety of music. Gomez, Zero 7, Massive Attack, Verdi's Requiem, Goldfrapp.

No, I meant amp.

[Fing]

No, I meant amp.

SinglePower Extreme Platinum and now Yamamoto HA-02.

Midrange, where art thou?

[markl]

There is a slight mid-range recession (centered around the area of male voices) inherent in the Denon, it's its major Achilles Heel. But that's a flaw the stock phone has. With the mod (from what I see here, the latest incarnation of the mod with Dynamat and Mountain Mist was not recorded, bummer, given it may be gone forever from Head-Fi \), one of the good side effects of tightening and containing the bass is that it allows the midrange to come forward a bit and keeps the bass from intruding into the lower midrange.

Next week, I have a Moon Audio re-cabled D5000 coming that I also plan on mod-ing. I'm hoping the new cable can bring that slightly shy midrange forward a little more, but we'll see...

[Nanoha]

There is a slight mid-range recession (centered around the area of male voices) inherent in the Denon, it's its major Achilles Heel. But that's a flaw the stock phone has. With the mod (from what I see here, the latest incarnation of the mod with Dynamat and Mountain Mist was not recorded, bummer, given it may be gone forever from Head-Fi \), one of the good side effects of tightening and containing the bass is that it allows the midrange to come forward a bit and keeps the bass from intruding into the lower midrange.

Next week, I have a Moon Audio re-cabled D5000 coming that I also plan on mod-ing. I'm hoping the new cable can bring that slightly shy midrange forward a little more, but we'll see...

It's markl! :kitty: