Icarium Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 Got mine in yesterday. Listened to them out of the Yamamoto... okay... so-so. Definitely higher resolution than the w5000s with much better imaging/soundstage. Bass is... well interesting. More prominent than in the w5000s and comes at you from an interesting angle (Not bad, or really even good. But interesting and different. Probably due to the massive soundstage). That was sourced with the EMU 0404 usb, i.e. my work rig. Took them home and sourced it with my Wavelength DAC and my Esoteric and powered with my SS-1. Okay pretty good as well. Definitely close to or equally detailed as the qualias. Better mids. A bit honky in the upper midrange right where it stops being mid range and starts being highs. A bit slower than the Qualias. It is a very different sound. Different from anything else I've heard before and I've heard quite a bit. Sounds/instruments come at you from far away to mid-distance and at angles that no other headphone has ever presented it. Not for everyone, but definitely interesting and enjoyable from my perspective. The midrange is much stronger than the qualias and the highs I'd say about as strong but definitely very different. Bass... well definitely weaker then the Qualias but really not bad. Qualia bass I think is severely under rated. I have to say its just about my favorite bass behind the L3000s. it's not overwhelmingly present/bloated diffused like the HD650s. It is accurate with insane extension and punch and with the perfect amount. However it doesn't have that slight reverb effect that L3000s have probably as a closed headphone. R10 bass is definitely interesting. It is focused and has more punch and definition than the w5000 bass for sure. Slightly more quantity. Whether it decays as well or extends as far I can't tell yet. It has a nice thump though that is placed nicely. I like it. It really has the impact of kick drums (Not super impactful just real) down though maybe not the extension. I don't want to say the imaging is better than Qualias... my impulse is to say that it does Z axis better and does imaging in that dimension better but in the other two dimensions it might lose out. I dunno its possible it might just be better and more real like K1Ks. Can't say now. The weakest things with the SS-1 is the honkiness and it isn't really WOWing me. Then... tonight I plugged them into the SDS maxed out and specifically tuned for them. This SDS has every option possible except for adjustable bias (But it is set to high which is the R10s home territory and no 12V option... or texture control which I'm not sure SDS's can get done. Probably but it probably pollutes the circuit) including ridiculous big caps/audio note silver caps/black gates/silver wiring/plitron/45 stepper/400 V output option/everything. R10s are now amazing. The L3000 which again was a headphone which I thought was nice out of the Rudistor was also similarly transformed by this amp when I owned it. Though it was much more drastic from Rudistor -> SDS than SS-1 -> SDS, but now there is rightness. Things are organic. The soundstage is killed slightly and everything in general is shifted a little closer but things were TOO distant and relaxed with the SS-1 it was patently unnatural. The tubes (Tungsol 2C51 and Sylvania 6BL7 GTs) really fill out and add bits of extension to the sound while maintaining a clear sound. Mmm this is good. These might be a keeper. Qualias still are my beloved and K1000s are still the king in my eyes. Electrostatics are still good as well. But R10s definitely have a place in things. Oh... I just put down Massive Attack's - Angel. Lots of bass on this track and I don't want to sound ridiculous but R10s are performing about as well on this track as I remember L3000s performing. Maybe slightly less bass and slightly less extension but damn this bass is CUT and defined and certainly present. It isn't monster bass as Darth's are supposed to rep... but its presence can't be denied. Any in the Bay Area want to check it out maybe pit L3000s/Ed9s against it I'll be glad to host.
Nanoha Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 Mmm! First reply! Very nice, very nice. Thread++
purk Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 Dan, Congrats on getting the R10 in your hand finally. I hope to hear more of your SDS+R10 vs. the SS-1 + Qualia. Don't forget to check out the GE 12AY7 soon.
Elephas Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 Is it the more-bass or less-bass version? Yeah, I'd like to read more about the R10 vs. Qualia. Five paragraphs only? I know you can do a lot better!
riceboy Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 Thanks for your impressions. The R10s is a can I would like to hear one day
boomana Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 Nice impressions, Dan. Other than your source, I've listened to your specific rig, and know how good it is. It's the very one that made me want R10s. Although I think my setup's reached 80% of that sound, I still remember my first listening session with the SDS and R10s, and I think much of what I've been trying to do ever since then is recreate that moment. I'm not there yet. Congratulations to you on finally getting the R10s and SDS together. Regarding the bass, your thoughts echo my own. I personally don't understand what people mean when they talk about lack of bass. I've only heard five pair, mostly similar in sound, if not identical (though Purk's and mine were noticeably different), but I have yet to encounter a bass light pair. The bass is not visceral, like with the PS1s or L3000s, but other than with a few bands or cds, in which I'm looking for a wicked attack or punch me in the gut bass, I find it near perfect. I'm not sure what you mean, though, by "honky" in the upper mids. I can't find honkiness anywhere in the same room as my R10s, let alone in the mids. Since you've only had them one day, I look forward to hearing your future thoughts. Keep us posted. EDIT: I love the polite understatement of your thread title. It's really rather sweet.
Icarium Posted October 12, 2007 Author Report Posted October 12, 2007 It's a later model (One of the last sold in the US) bass heavy version. The honkiness was only in conjunction with my SS-1. It either doesn't take to solid state well or my amp well... or my tube complement compensates. No idea which.
boomana Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 Mine's a later model of well. mikeg and I actually did a comparison of your pair and mine, and they sounded the same. Purk has done some pretty extensive reseach into R10s and he learned that the idea that later pairs are bass heavy and early pairs are the lighter version is false. There are actually three separate drivers (he showed me Sony documentation indicating same), so three versions of R10s are out there in the world. Here's where my memory may be faulty, but I'm pretty sure he told me that the suspected reason is that individual buyers in Japan could actually choose which sound they preferred. Pretty nice, huh? Purk, come on in here with the real scoop, and I apologize if I mis-remembered anything.
deepak Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 Great impressions I recall hearing most of what you described.
purk Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 Mine's a later model of well. mikeg and I actually did a comparison of your pair and mine, and they sounded the same. Purk has done some pretty extensive reseach into R10s and he learned that the idea that later pairs are bass heavy and early pairs are the lighter version is false. There are actually three separate drivers (he showed me Sony documentation indicating same), so three versions of R10s are out there in the world. Here's where my memory may be faulty, but I'm pretty sure he told me that the suspected reason is that individual buyers in Japan could actually choose which sound they preferred. Pretty nice, huh? Purk, come on in here with the real scoop, and I apologize if I mis-remembered anything. Vickie, I don't have any more information really in exception to that there might be 4 versions of drivers on the r10s, please don't ask me why b/c I have no answer to that. However, there should only be two types of sound associated with the R10s: Lighter bass R10 with better midrange, air, image, and soundstaging and a more bass output pair with smoother presentation and less analytical presentation. Icarium's and your pair are definitely the pair with more bass. I believe Hirsch has the lighter bass pair, which he prefers over the bassier pair. I like both of them equally. I also agree with Mikhail that the lighter bass pair will sound better than the bassier pair when the two are being driven with a maxed out SDS-XLR. Mikhail thinks that the lighter bass pair is sligthly more refined, and I totally agree. I believe Elephas feels the same way as he has both versions of the R10s.
hirsch Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 Mine's a later model of well. mikeg and I actually did a comparison of your pair and mine, and they sounded the same. Purk has done some pretty extensive reseach into R10s and he learned that the idea that later pairs are bass heavy and early pairs are the lighter version is false. There are actually three separate drivers (he showed me Sony documentation indicating same), so three versions of R10s are out there in the world. Here's where my memory may be faulty, but I'm pretty sure he told me that the suspected reason is that individual buyers in Japan could actually choose which sound they preferred. Pretty nice, huh? I've owned three R10's simultaneously (and previously owned a fourth), and so was able to compare versions directly. The one I had that was the most recent production had far more bass quantity than the two older ones. While it may be related to driver version rather than serial number, all three of the older R10's I've owned have had the same sound. It has less bass than the newer one, but a wider, yet more coherent sound stage. I'm very sensitive to staging, so the compressed stage of the newer R10 became the deal-killer, and when I decided to come back down to two of them, the newer one was the one to go. Note that I was talking quantity, not quality. The older R10's may not have as much bass, but it's very tight and well defined. You can hear the fingering of the string on a double bass, as opposed to bloated low frequency sound. If I absolutely need more bass, I can go to the HE90 (which does not have the precise image of the R10, although it's getting closer). The Qualia 010 is an odd one for me. Technically, run balanced out of the SDS-XLR, it may be the one headphone I've got that gets everything technically right. And yet, I've never really gotten into it just for the fun of listening to music. Hmmmm....
Icarium Posted October 12, 2007 Author Report Posted October 12, 2007 Ahaha well if you end up parting ways with it look me up ;p Mmm Qualias.
purk Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 I've owned three R10's simultaneously (and previously owned a fourth), and so was able to compare versions directly. The one I had that was the most recent production had far more bass quantity than the two older ones. While it may be related to driver version rather than serial number, all three of the older R10's I've owned have had the same sound. It has less bass than the newer one, but a wider, yet more coherent sound stage. I'm very sensitive to staging, so the compressed stage of the newer R10 became the deal-killer, and when I decided to come back down to two of them, the newer one was the one to go. Note that I was talking quantity, not quality. The older R10's may not have as much bass, but it's very tight and well defined. You can hear the fingering of the string on a double bass, as opposed to bloated low frequency sound. If I absolutely need more bass, I can go to the HE90 (which does not have the precise image of the R10, although it's getting closer). The Qualia 010 is an odd one for me. Technically, run balanced out of the SDS-XLR, it may be the one headphone I've got that gets everything technically right. And yet, I've never really gotten into it just for the fun of listening to music. Hmmmm.... Thanks for stopping by Hirsch. Send your amp in and get high voltage option.
aerius Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 R10...bass...R10......bass.....either I'm dreaming or I'm stuck in an alternate reality....
purk Posted October 13, 2007 Report Posted October 13, 2007 R10...bass...R10......bass.....either I'm dreaming or I'm stuck in an alternate reality.... Nope it is real.....you probably have not heard the R10 in the right system yet.
Icarium Posted October 13, 2007 Author Report Posted October 13, 2007 My SDS is so goddamn clean sounding with the tubes I have in right now. Definitely as clear as the Zana Deux which is the other really clear tube amp I've heard, if not cleaner.
Salt Peanuts Posted October 13, 2007 Report Posted October 13, 2007 What a hell? Icarium's last post isn't showing up on the thread for me, though it's I can see it if I try to reply to the thread.
Nanoha Posted October 13, 2007 Report Posted October 13, 2007 What a hell? Icarium's last post isn't showing up on the thread for me, though it's I can see it if I try to reply to the thread. Same here! -> My SDS is so goddamn clean sounding with the tubes I have in right now. Definitely as clear as the Zana Deux which is the other really clear tube amp I've heard, if not cleaner.
Icarium Posted October 13, 2007 Author Report Posted October 13, 2007 Weird. I am steeped in the black magic.
Salt Peanuts Posted October 13, 2007 Report Posted October 13, 2007 You guys broke the internet. See, this is why we can't have anything nice.
Icarium Posted October 13, 2007 Author Report Posted October 13, 2007 Hrm If you replied before or after. What a hell? Icarium's last post isn't showing up on the thread for me, though it's I can see it if I try to reply to the thread. and Insert Quote Icarium, can you see the reply? Then no. I also don't see my own post except in the reply mode.
tkam Posted October 13, 2007 Report Posted October 13, 2007 It's fixed now, no clue what happened but the forum software was able to fix it on its own.
Icarium Posted October 13, 2007 Author Report Posted October 13, 2007 Telling you. I'm Black Magic! Planet Alignment + Chicken sacrificing hoodoo!
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