deepak Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 If you want rock to sound like crap (i.e. like some of it is supposed to) then you want slam and bass heft and the rest be damned. Electrostatics can do that but you need a vintage stat for the job. The Suprex PEP-74 is the best rock phone ever and I've spent a good deal of time with the RS1. The thicker the diaphragm the better the rock bass. None of them can come close to the SR-007 bass in extension and texture but they are simply too honest for some recordings so you need some 35 year old design. There is a reason I own all these headphones... Well specifically about the Omega 2 I don't think they can reproduce rock faithfully unless that means just playing back the music minus the dynamics and slam. Which is what live rock music sounds like. Not the dainty way the Omegas do it. Again just IMO, a good dynamic headphone will have high resolution with the dynamic bass and dynamics to make it sound like you're listening to rock and not a spinning silver disc.
humanflyz Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 Well specifically about the Omega 2 I don't think they can reproduce rock faithfully unless that means just playing back the music minus the dynamics and slam. Which is what live rock music sounds like. Not the dainty way the Omegas do it. Again just IMO, a good dynamic headphone will have high resolution with the dynamic bass and dynamics to make it sound like you're listening to rock and not a spinning silver disc. Yeah, that is also my problem with the O2s as well, but I think they are great though.
postjack Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 If you want rock to sound like crap (i.e. like some of it is supposed to) then you want slam and bass heft and the rest be damned. Electrostatics can do that but you need a vintage stat for the job. The Suprex PEP-74 is the best rock phone ever and I've spent a good deal of time with the RS1. The thicker the diaphragm the better the rock bass. None of them can come close to the SR-007 bass in extension and texture but they are simply too honest for some recordings so you need some 35 year old design. There is a reason I own all these headphones... Well, I think "rock music" is a loaded term when it comes to audio discussion. When I say rock, I don't mean modern brickwalled pro-tooled rangeless recordings, nor do I mean piss-poor Led Zeppelin remasters (not that I like Zeppelin anyway, or the Stones for that matter). I mean more nuanced and breathe-y rock like Genesis or King Crimson, or the analog stylings of Ryan Adams. But on the other hand, even when a rock recording may not be the best recorded and/or mastered, like Grateful Dead soundboards or old Fall recordings, I don't want any false slam added to the mix to make it sound more "alive". So long as my gear portrays what is on the recording accurately, that is what gets me off.
spritzer Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 Here is where personal preference comes to play. The dynamic range of the SR-007 is simply awesome but it will never play bass like a dynamic driver will i.e. with the thump generated by the cones. The diaphragm is so thin and light that there are no standing waves to make any kind of thump and the housing dispenses of the extra information so there is no overhang either. I can't stand either so no dynamic speakers for me but if this sound is your cup of tea you need one of the older stats. The original Lambda with the damping material removed has some of this but the even older phones with 4 and 6um diaphragms have plenty of slam and overhang. This is also the main basis behind the HE90 vs SR-007 argument as the Stax is so neutral and the He90 isn't. Some users can't see that the Stax is simply showing what the system sounds like while the He90 puts a nice shine over everything.
postjack Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 This is also the main basis behind the HE90 vs SR-007 argument as the Stax is so neutral and the He90 isn't. Some users can't see that the Stax is simply showing what the system sounds like while the He90 puts a nice shine over everything. I really think I would like the O2.
spritzer Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 Well, I think "rock music" is a loaded term when it comes to audio discussion. When I say rock, I don't mean modern brickwalled pro-tooled rangeless recordings, nor do I mean piss-poor Led Zeppelin remasters (not that I like Zeppelin anyway, or the Stones for that matter). I mean more nuanced and breathe-y rock like Genesis or King Crimson, or the analog stylings of Ryan Adams. But on the other hand, even when a rock recording may not be the best recorded and/or mastered, like Grateful Dead soundboards or old Fall recordings, I don't want any false slam added to the mix to make it sound more "alive". So long as my gear portrays what is on the recording accurately, that is what gets me off. That was what I meant with "some rock music". The classic rock greats make up the bulk of my listening so accurate bass is very important to me and one of the reasons why I never, ever use the He90. The SR-007 is the only phone that can recreate every last nuance of the bass but it's a bitch to get them that good. Cable choice is crucial and so is the fit. You have to get the arc correctly set up or the bass will be anemic or overblown. Just buy the SR-007. That's what I do when I want something...
postjack Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 That was what I meant with "some rock music". The classic rock greats make up the bulk of my listening so accurate bass is very important to me and one of the reasons why I never, ever use the He90. The SR-007 is the only phone that can recreate every last nuance of the bass but it's a bitch to get them that good. Cable choice is crucial and so is the fit. You have to get the arc correctly set up or the bass will be anemic or overblown. Just buy the SR-007. That's what I do when I want something... I'm waiting around a bit to see about the new MKII. Either it will be good enough to snatch up, or its appearance will make used O2s pop up all over on the cheap. Anyway, I just dumped a lot of cash into my dynamic rig (Balanced Beta22), so I really don't need any new gear right now.
spritzer Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 I'm waiting around a bit to see about the new MKII. Either it will be good enough to snatch up, or its appearance will make used O2s pop up all over on the cheap. Anyway, I just dumped a lot of cash into my dynamic rig (Balanced Beta22), so I really don't need any new gear right now. I'll post my impressions of the Mk2's as soon as I get them. When that will be I don't know but shortly after the release. I'm guessing that the SR-007 will suddenly become the best headphone ever on the other site the day after it is discontinued and it will triple in price.
philodox Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 This is also the main basis behind the HE90 vs SR-007 argument as the Stax is so neutral and the He90 isn't. Some users can't see that the Stax is simply showing what the system sounds like while the He90 puts a nice shine over everything.Neither is neutral, the HE90 is a little bright and the 007 are dark. Still, the HE90's are more fun sounding, so it is no wonder that people gush over them at meets. I've yet to spend a good deal of time with either, so you probably know better than I... but you are definately biased.
JBLoudG20 Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 but you are definately biased. HA like you arent?
deepak Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 We're all biased I think it's cool that spritzer has a system where the Omega 2 sounds better than the HE90 and he's not afraid to buck those HE90 fans, as I've seen him catch a lot of flack from them
philodox Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 HA like you arent?Sure I am, but we're not talking about K340's dummy.
mirumu Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 I dunno stats can't really make you rock out with your cock out. More like rock out with your inverted penis And you're the only one that seems to think that they can Make that two. I will be the first to admit though that I have not heard the RS-1 or HP-2. I know I'm not saying anything new here but the O2s really need power behind them to rock. When underpowered they sound dark and dainty but with more juice behind them they sound more balanced. My main problem with the 4070 is that even with power they always seem to have a degree of restraint and ultimately don't rock as well as the O2s. But yes, while the O2s can produce a lot of bass under the right conditions they will not match the slam of air on your ears that dynamics are capable of.
spritzer Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 I'm biased towards the best sound but not toward any phones in general. The SR-007 was the first high-end phone I bought (HD600 doesn't really count) and the system was initially built around them but all these headphones that have come after were measured against them and have failed, not just in some performance area but in musicality as a whole. The He90 was great in the "honeymoon" period but when I made some direct comparisons I found them wanting. I've since upgraded my system a lot internally and while most of the phones took a big step forward the He90 was to colored to fully utilize it. It's a shame not to use them much as they are a work of art but I'd much rather use the SR-Omega or Sr-Lambda. The SR-007 isn't dark unless the system is dark or the amp isn't powerful enough. Electrostatic need the most power at the extremes so that's where a tough load will suffer. The usual complaint about the SR-007 is that they are dark and the bass in overblown... We're all biased I think it's cool that spritzer has a system where the Omega 2 sounds better than the HE90 and he's not afraid to buck those HE90 fans, as I've seen him catch a lot of flack from them My system is configured to be as neutral as I can make it to let any one of the 30+ 'stats shine with plenty of power behind them. Not many of the HE90 fans have gone down this road. I have been attacked time and time again and if you think the public stuff is bad you should see the PM's. The sad part is that very few of the He90 defenders has anything credible to say.
Nanoha Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 I guess there is a reason why Carl and Spritzer stand by the Omegas even though they've been through more electrostatic setups (the amp) than most - perhaps even more than most who do own the HE90. Also, Jason found something missing with his HE90 experience but still keeps the SR-X.
deepak Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 Make that two. I will be the first to admit though that I have not heard the RS-1 or HP-2. I know I'm not saying anything new here but the O2s really need power behind them to rock. When underpowered they sound dark and dainty but with more juice behind them they sound more balanced. My main problem with the 4070 is that even with power they always seem to have a degree of restraint and ultimately don't rock as well as the O2s. But yes, while the O2s can produce a lot of bass under the right conditions they will not match the slam of air on your ears that dynamics are capable of. I've heard the Omega 2 a couple of times with a KGSS, and ES-1. I'm biased towards the best sound but not toward any phones in general. The SR-007 was the first high-end phone I bought (HD600 doesn't really count) and the system was initially built around them but all these headphones that have come after were measured against them and have failed, not just in some performance area but in musicality as a whole. The He90 was great in the "honeymoon" period but when I made some direct comparisons I found them wanting. I've since upgraded my system a lot internally and while most of the phones took a big step forward the He90 was to colored to fully utilize it. It's a shame not to use them much as they are a work of art but I'd much rather use the SR-Omega or Sr-Lambda. The SR-007 isn't dark unless the system is dark or the amp isn't powerful enough. Electrostatic need the most power at the extremes so that's where a tough load will suffer. The usual complaint about the SR-007 is that they are dark and the bass in overblown... My system is configured to be as neutral as I can make it to let any one of the 30+ 'stats shine with plenty of power behind them. Not many of the HE90 fans have gone down this road. I have been attacked time and time again and if you think the public stuff is bad you should see the PM's. The sad part is that very few of the He90 defenders has anything credible to say. This is Sparta! Give us a gist of some of those PMs
spritzer Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 I'm sure many users will find their ultimate phone in the HE90 but it is not the end all ultimate reference many make it out to be. This is Sparta! Give us a gist of some of those PMs This was at its worst in early 2006 so those PM's are long gone but some are memorable. "You are a fucking idiot and you don't deserve the HE90", "Are you deaf?", "You have no right to talk like this about the Orpheus you deaf moron" and so on. It's not that bad.
deepak Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 I'm sure many users will find their ultimate phone in the HE90 but it is not the end all ultimate reference many make it out to be. This was at its worst in early 2006 so those PM's are long gone but some are memorable. "You are a fucking idiot and you don't deserve the HE90", "Are you deaf?", "You have no right to talk like this about the Orpheus you deaf moron" and so on. It's not that bad. Wow...the worst part is I assume most of those HE90 owners are grown ups (seeing they can afford HE90s) \
Nanoha Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 Were those comments from people who owned the HE90 or those who had heard the HE90... or perhaps even those who haven't even heard the HE90?
boomana Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 I was never a HE90 fan, though I admit they're great headphones. The first time I heard them was at my first meet. I didn't know they were supposed to be anything special. I'd never heard of them before. I was using a CD I know well since I'd been present at all the recording sessions and was part of the mixing and mastering process (lots of headphone listening). All these people were standing around me waiting for my wow reaction (which I didn't know I was supposed to give), and I kept saying, "There's something missing. This doesn't sound right." People chalked it up to me being a deaf newbie, but my opinion has never changed. At the Tampa meet, I prefered Thrice's now sold woodied Lambda Pros to the HE 90s on the same rig, and would have bought them on the spot if I knew he was going to sell them...okay, and if I'd had any money, which I didn't. I've been lurking in that Stax thread for over a year now. One day....
mirumu Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 I guess there is a reason why Carl and Spritzer stand by the Omegas even though they've been through more electrostatic setups (the amp) than most - perhaps even more than most who do own the HE90. Also, Jason found something missing with his HE90 experience but still keeps the SR-X. Carl isn't so taken by the Omegas actually. He borrowed my O2s for a while to listen with his own system and while he respected their abilities they were not for him. He prefers the HE60s I believe. I know he's had a new arrival recently but that's for him to talk about. I've heard the Omega 2 a couple of times with a KGSS, and ES-1. Yes, that's why I said I wasn't "saying anything new". If you find the O2s dark and restrained from amps like that then I'm sure if you heard them on a weaker amp they'd seem darker again and very insipid. This was at its worst in early 2006 so those PM's are long gone but some are memorable. "You are a fucking idiot and you don't deserve the HE90", "Are you deaf?", "You have no right to talk like this about the Orpheus you deaf moron" and so on. It's not that bad. Oh wow. Their skin must have been so thin that your comments really hit a nerve. That's some serious insecurity.
Nanoha Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 Carl isn't so taken by the Omegas actually. He borrowed my O2s for a while to listen with his own system and while he respected their abilities they were not for him. He prefers the HE60s I believe. I know he's had a new arrival recently but that's for him to talk about. Ah ha, actually, that seems to be the case now that I think about it? My bad. I've been lurking in that Stax thread for over a year now. One day.... dew eet!
spritzer Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 Were those comments from people who owned the HE90 or those who had heard the HE90... or perhaps even those who haven't even heard the HE90? It was both. The worst comments were often from people that had heard them at a meet for 3 minutes and some because it was headfi and you don't have to hear something to know how it sounds. The fynny thing is that there are more HE90's sold on the other site then O2's. Those that own them all keep the Stax phones and sell the Sennheisers. Carl isn't so taken by the Omegas actually. He borrowed my O2s for a while to listen with his own system and while he respected their abilities they were not for him. He prefers the HE60s I believe. I know he's had a new arrival recently but that's for him to talk about. Ooohhh spill the beans. I haven't spoken to him in a while so... ehhh... spill it! Is it something I don't own?
Nanoha Posted October 10, 2007 Report Posted October 10, 2007 Oh snap, new arrival. I must have missed the alert. Enlighten me!
mirumu Posted October 11, 2007 Report Posted October 11, 2007 It was both. The worst comments were often from people that had heard them at a meet for 3 minutes and some because it was headfi and you don't have to hear something to know how it sounds. Ugh. Why is that not surprising? The fynny thing is that there are more HE90's sold on the other site then O2's. Those that own them all keep the Stax phones and sell the Sennheisers. I still willing to provide a home for some HE60s but yeah, I doubt I'll be parting with any of my Stax gear. Ooohhh spill the beans. I haven't spoken to him in a while so... ehhh... spill it! Is it something I don't own? I don't think I should say any more as Carl knows where I live and would not take kindly to such things. He may revoke my borrowing rights.
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