Denon AH-D2000--big disappointment.

[Nanoha]

Has anyone here heard the Apache with Senns? Would be interesting to note if that didn't sound good either.

[Icarium]

what's a better balanced amp for or under $2,500?

Isn't the MSRP on one of those suckers $3000? My impression was that the $2500 dollar price was an introductory offering.

[Dusty Chalk]

And beyers.

[Nanoha]

So here are some balanced amps under $3k. I wonder if any of them is superior to the Apache.

Balanced b22

Balanced dynahi

Balanced m^3

GS-X

Luna

Balanced Desktop

Balanced Max

*ignores NX-33

[purk]

Yes, the Apache is now $3000. Unless the Apache is significantly better than the Headroom Balanced Max (4K unit), I can't see it as being a good value. At a recent Florida meet, I was surprised at how well a Balanced Squarewave (1.6K) measured up to the 4K HR Balanced Max. The sonic differences b/w them was very very small probably less than 5% and Mikhail was telling me that with a stepped attenuators, the amp will sound markly better. What even more surprising is the Dynamight was head and shoulder above every solidstate amps I've heard and Balanced Beta 22 is supposed to be even better for less than $2k.

[ojnihs]

^^ so apache is only good for senns, in your opinion.

where's KG to knock some sense into you?

[aerius]

Isn't the MSRP on one of those suckers $3000? My impression was that the $2500 dollar price was an introductory offering.

$3000 for the Apache? You gotta be shitting me. I guess Ray's really going for the cost of materials times 10 model of retail pricing. Fucking ridiculous.

[Icarium]

At least it looks cute. If only I could mount my rig on the hood of my car (Balances out my fat spoiler, tailpipe and Type R stickers) or wear it around my neck in a pimp-ass chain that Mr. T would be jealous of.... It is damn cute but I just feel the sweet looks would be wasted in my hovel-like room for only me to see.

[PFKMan23]

I used my HD580s with the Apache and the sound was fairly nondynamic and uninspiring.

[jinp6301]

I preferred the M^3 single ended to the apache single ended at the meet. The M^3 is a sick amp.

[kevin gilmore]

$3000 for the Apache? You gotta be shitting me. I guess Ray's really going for the cost of materials times 10 model of retail pricing. Fucking ridiculous.

Lets be fair, the parts cost may be as high as $500 which makes it only 6 times the cost of parts.

There are 2 chassis afterall

Very interesting on ray's website, all internal pictures of the apache have been removed. And no

internal pictures of the power supply have ever surfaced yet.

Double the output impedance of a hr-2. Very sloppy bass with lower impedance headphones.

The M^3 is a far better circuit with way more output power than the apache.

[Nanoha]

The M^3 is a far better circuit with way more output power than the apache.

I preferred the M^3 single ended to the apache single ended at the meet. The M^3 is a sick amp.

I used my HD580s with the Apache and the sound was fairly nondynamic and uninspiring.

Haha yeah, that is what I thought.

[n_maher]

Lets be fair, the parts cost may be as high as $500 which makes it only 6 times the cost of parts.

There are 2 chassis afterall

If we're really being fair those two chassis probably cost the better part of $400 all by themselves. I'd guess that Ray's parts cost is probably under $100, but not by half.

[jinp6301]

but the apache looks so pretty!!!

it really does

[Nanoha]

but the apache looks so pretty!!!

it really does

I personally would agree with that. (Not the B52 though.) I wonder who does the visual design. (Ray? )

[The Monkey]

Has anyone here heard the Apache with Senns? Would be interesting to note if that didn't sound good either.

I heard the Apache with Senns at the NYC Meet last weekend. I was disappointed. I don't think it sounded horrible, but it was lifeless and dull to my ears. I like the build quality, but I don't like the whole black and gold thing. Also, I really disliked the stepper. I felt that each step was too far apart (though I didn't play with the gain setting) and I heard a distinctive click on each step when music was at low volumes.

I prefer, by a lot, my HR Balanced Desktop, but I suppose that's a biased opinion.

[thrice]

I prefer, by a lot, my HR Balanced Desktop, but I suppose that's a biased opinion.

It's a damn good amp, no it's a freaking steal at that price. It doesn't get the credit it deserves..... perhaps if it had a gold knob...just one though, more than that and it just isn't special anymore.

[The Monkey]

It's a damn good amp, no it's a freaking steal at that price. It doesn't get the credit it deserves..... perhaps if it had a gold knob...just one though, more than that and it just isn't special anymore.

I really do love it. I'm tempted to send it to HR for the stepper, but I am concerned about not being able to find the sweet spot even when playing with the gain switch.

The knob on my HR keeps falling off. Maybe I'll replace it with a big phat gold one.

[postjack]

The knob on my HR keeps falling off. Maybe I'll replace it with a big phat gold one.

the gold knob will enhance midrange euphony and round out the bass grip.

[boomana]

only if surrounded by a blue aura.

[vcoheda]

i honestly cannot believe what i am reading. i don't have crazy experience with gear, but i am no noob either. the apache - balanced - is clearly one of the best amps i have ever heard. at the meet, i was speaking with another head-fier who owned a 10K single power and he thought my apache sounded very good. he said it was close to his HR balanced max, another amp he owned. we both agreed that the HR balanced desktop was very unimpressive.

there seems to be an unusually strong bias against ray's products here and i suspect it is difficult for those individuals to approach and evaluate his products fairly. the site takes the ymmv to an extreme.

[ojnihs]

i honestly cannot believe what i am reading. i don't have crazy experience with gear, but i am no noob either. the apache - balanced - is clearly one of the best amps i have ever heard. at the meet, i was speaking with another head-fier who owned a 10K single power and he thought my apache sounded very good. he said it was close to his HR balanced max, another amp he owned. we both agreed that the HR balanced desktop was very unimpressive.

there seems to be an unusually strong bias against ray's products here and i suspect it is difficult for those individuals to approach and evaluate his products fairly. the site takes the ymmv to an extreme.

what's so difficult to understand or believe? it's pretty simple. an amp that isn't designed well probably doesn't have that much potential to sound good.

[PFKMan23]

I suppose it's damn obvious, but my guess is your reaction wouldn't be half as negative/skeptical if we had said that the Apache was awesome. I also don't need to comment that there is a lot of serious butt kissing on Head Fi. I posted my honest impression of a product I heard, as have others, I don't know what's so unbelievable about it.

[ojnihs]

I suppose it's damn obvious, but my guess is your reaction wouldn't be half as negative if we had said that the Apache was awesome. I also don't need to comment that there is a lot of serious butt kissing on Head Fi. I posted my honest impression of a product I heard, I don't know what's so unbelievable about it.

i think he's still stuck on the fact that since the apache is well received on head-fi, it must be good. i mean he keeps bringing up the fact that someone over there heard it and thought it was good.

[boomana]

There's some bias here, some more pointed than necessary, but so be it. I personally have zippo against Ray, own one of his amps, and if he came out with something I liked for a reasonable price, I'd get it, though that doesn't seem to be happening.

I listened to the Apache at the Florida meet, have heard the balanced Beta on two occasions, a balanced Dynamight multiple times, and quite a bit of balanced headroom gear from the old Blockhead to the latest as far as ss goes. As I said in my meet impressions, the Apache did nothing for me, and I tried with with R10s, 600s and 650s. Not bad; just nothing. I also have no affection for the Meridian. If it pleases you, that's great, but it's difficult for those of us who have heard it, and don't share the same opinion to not put the differences in the pot when you're talking about headphones heard from that rig. I'm not a D5000 fan, but I've heard it from a few different sources/amps and I didn't experience it as you did. I am a L3000 fan and same deal here.