boomana Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Based on the fact I posted my dislike of the Denon D5000s rather loudly (though admitted that they weren't bad cans) on head-fi, I received a few offers to let me listen to the D2000s. I finally took someone up on that, and for the past two days have been listening to a Silver Dragon recabled pair. From what I read, the 2000s were to be similar to the 5000s in sq, which made me think that they might be worth the bucks. I also read that they were comfortable, which has its own value. I now do not understand what people are hearing. I haven't yet tried them out on my main rig, as I've been kicked back here in bed the past couple nights with a Denon DCP-100, my Thrice-tweaked Heed Canamp, an assortment of headphones for comparison, and a stash of xrcds and regulars that I know well. First off, these cans are not comfy or I have a weird shaped head. The cups angle so that they do not rest flat behind my ears, and are heavy, with the weight on the headband becoming bothersome after only a short time. I could live with that (my K340s are equally heavy, but seal well), except for the sound... Egad! What are others hearing? How can these be touted as something good? The tone is so distorted, and mids thrust so far forward they make me cringe. I have on Kaki King right now, and all I hear is twang that is smushed into more twang--a solid block twangfest instead of music. The notes have no resonance at all, and there is no space, and no air. Listening to Sara Vaughan, her voice lost all depth and beauty and was pushed so far in front of the rest of the instruments, they disappeared. Pianos sound like toys (Waltz for Debbie), and saxaphones sound like guitars (various Coltrane cds). The bass is not nearly as present as I'd expected, and is sloppy. Just to make sure I wasn't crazy, I tried the same tracks out with R10s, HD600s, and K340s. Nope. Only the Denons presented the music this way. The mids on the K340s were similarly forward, but still sounded right. Anyway, I have them for two more days, so in case it's just the worst case of synergy ever, I'll test them out with a few other sources and amps. In the meantime, have any of you spent time with these headphones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomana Posted October 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 yes! finally! magic headphones! i'm so getting a pair. If these were mine, I'd give them to you free of charge. As is, the owner actually likes them, and so I must send them back to NY. I am disappointed. I was hoping they'd fill the full-sized, closed headphone, not expensive enough to worry about taking to work void I have in my collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFKMan23 Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Interesting impressions. I wish you would have gotten a stock pair to hear though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFKMan23 Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 True... but I'm not sure that I'd consider the SD cable a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomana Posted October 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 I question the same, but also agree with Reks that there's no way these went from the goodness I've been reading about to the crapola I've been hearing. One good thing: I got to appreciate my K340s again. I haven't listened to them in awhile. I'm relistening to Kaki now with them. What a difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomana Posted October 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Also, although it's been a few months, the D5000s sounded in no way as bad as these. I just didn't understand all the raving about them (Senns, RS1s, K701 and others kill them), and thought they were over-priced, but they at least sounded decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philodox Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 One good thing: I got to appreciate my K340s again. I haven't listened to them in awhile. Well, that's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It was actually your dissension on the D5000 that stopped me from buying a pair sound-unheard. I'm sure I'll hear the D5000 or D2000 eventually, and no matter what I think of them then, its always nice to have someone present the opposite side of the story on a piece of gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkam Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Also, although it's been a few months, the D5000s sounded in no way as bad as these. I just didn't understand all the raving about them (Senns, RS1s, K701 and others kill them), and thought they were over-priced, but they at least sounded decent. Well I think the raving comes from typical head-fi FOTM crap but also because it has absolutely zero competition in the $500 closed headphone department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sacd lover Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Also, although it's been a few months, the D5000s sounded in no way as bad as these. I just didn't understand all the raving about them (Senns, RS1s, K701 and others kill them), and thought they were over-priced, but they at least sounded decent. I am with you .... what are people hearing? I have this attitude towards the Ultrasones. I think the Ultrasones sound plain weird. I cant stand them .... and I just dont understand the raving about them. How could anyone prefer, for example, a PL 2500 to a Senn 600/ Alessandro MS2/ AKG K701 etc.... etc ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purk Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Well...the D5000 is definitely not my cup of tea. Too much bass, not anatural mids, and too forward souding and not that refined. I will take the a well amped HD600 over the Denon any day. The Denon D5000 is pretty similar to the Ed.9, but the Ed.9 is slightly better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomana Posted October 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 The D5000s still sound significantly better than the D2000s, but since I've only heard this recabled pair, I can't say what the stock sound may be. As for the Ultrasones, Earl, I think you, me, and Elephas were all alone there in the Ultrazone for awhile, pegged as enemies in a sacred land. That was freaky. Do you remember how everyone ganged up on poor Elephas, straight out attacked you, and decided, in a group decision, that my pair must be broken since I couldn't possibly hear things the way I did? I, at least, liked them enough to wish they were better, but they weren't and had to go. They were certainly better than what I'm hearing with the D2000s. I'm listening now out of my main rig: Exemplar modded Denon 2900 and SP Extreme Platinum with secondary power supply. I've switch up the tubes twice and the best combo is the Bendix 6080s with a KenRad black glass driver up front. I've got on Arvo Part's (fav composer!) Lamentate, which I love as much as any piece of music. They sound better the with my bedroom rig, with the mids smoother, notes less top heavy, and better balance throughout, but still, there is poor resolution, and piss poor imaging. Bah. And I still don't know what people are talkng about re bass. It's there, but any of my heaphones, except the K340 (about equal here) have more and better bass. Even the K1000s have more bass. Or maybe, like my Ultrasones, I have a broken pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sacd lover Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 The D5000s still sound significantly better than the D2000s, but since I've only heard this recabled pair, I can't say what the stock sound may be. As for the Ultrasones, Earl, I think you, me, and Elephas were all alone there in the Ultrazone for awhile, pegged as enemies in a sacred land. That was freaky. Do you remember how everyone ganged up on poor Elephas, straight out attacked you, and decided, in a group decision, that my pair must be broken since I couldn't possibly hear things the way I did? I, at least, liked them enough to wish they were better, but they weren't and had to go. They were certainly better than what I'm hearing with the D2000s. I'm listening now out of my main rig: Exemplar modded Denon 2900 and SP Extreme Platinum with secondary power supply. I've switch up the tubes twice and the best combo is the Bendix 6080s with a KenRad black glass driver up front. I've got on Arvo Part's (fav composer!) Lamentate, which I love as much as any piece of music. They sound better the with my bedroom rig, with the mids smoother, notes less top heavy, and better balance throughout, but still, there is poor resolution, and piss poor imaging. Bah. And I still don't know what people are talkng about re bass. It's there, but any of my heaphones, except the K340 (about equal here) have more and better bass. Even the K1000s have more bass. Or maybe, like my Ultrasones, I have a broken pair. The Ultrasones are better than the d2000? Good God .... please spare me ever hearing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomana Posted October 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 The Ultrasones are better than the d2000? Good God .... please spare me ever hearing them. Well, that might not quite be fair. They are bad in different ways. The Ultrasones had decent separation, and far better imaging, but then they had that damn metallic sheen, and unnatural tone to the upper mids and highs that did not go away with 500 hrs of prerequite burn-in. I know you disliked the recessed mids, but that didn't bother me like those highs...horrid. Then Denons certainly don't have recessed mids (to the contrary), but the tone is so off, it makes music I love unlistenable. There are things I like and dislike about every headphone I've heard. The only other time I've had such negative reactions to headphones was with the Shure SE210s and SE310s (not with the 420s or 530s) for similar reasons. Why does the trumpet sound like a guitar? Why are they all blending together? Ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 The build quality issues are another turn off with the D2000/D5000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fierce_freak Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Also, although it's been a few months, the D5000s sounded in no way as bad as these. I just didn't understand all the raving about them (Senns, RS1s, K701 and others kill them), and thought they were over-priced, but they at least sounded decent. I disagree. D2000 is my third favorite headphone I've owned, and I've owned the Senns and the K701 (which is shit). My ranking for cans I've owned is RS-1 > K1000 > D2000 > the rest (this disregards 'stats). I also had the chance to listen to both D5000 and D2000 side by side and noticed very little differences between the two. My ears are probably borked, haha. -edit- also, your comment on the mids is strange to me...to my ears, the mids on the D2000 are neutral or even a tad recessed as far as frequency balance goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fierce_freak Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Yeah, this is true. I'm currently using a beta22 (single-ended passive ground version) with a twisted pear audio Opus DAC with zapfilter installed. It's probably just a preference of sound thing...I hear what's good about the K701, but to my ears I could never live with a pair. Not nearly enough bass and the most fatiguing headphone I've ever owned (Grados don't bother me). I think that could be part of the AKG house sound, though, as every pair of AKG's I've owned have fatigued me to some point (even K1k). -edit- also have to account for musical taste...the largest portion of my musical collection is made up of metal and prog rock, and smatterings of other stuff like industrial, rock, and jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomana Posted October 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 I disagree. D2000 is my third favorite headphone I've owned, and I've owned the Senns and the K701 (which is shit). My ranking for cans I've owned is RS-1 > K1000 > D2000 > the rest (this disregards 'stats). I also had the chance to listen to both D5000 and D2000 side by side and noticed very little differences between the two. My ears are probably borked, haha. -edit- also, your comment on the mids is strange to me...to my ears, the mids on the D2000 are neutral or even a tad recessed as far as frequency balance goes. Well, this is what bothers me. There are too many people who report same, so other than hearing what I hear and knowing it now with the headphones on, I'm open to the idea that my ears are broken. I'm also surprised that the differences between the D2000 and my memory of both Thrice's and agile_one's D5000 are much greater than I expected. Those were at least balanced headphones, with decent tone, imaging, etc. etc., just nothing special imo, and way over priced. These don't seem like they came from the same maker. Maybe the Silver Dragon wasn't the way to go....but still...I just got off the phone with one of the FL crew who reminded me that I'm more or less a spoiled brat, so there's that too, which, knowing me, could account for much. Re mids: they are definitely way out front, annoyingly so, on every track I've listened to so far. It's like you want to push them back into the can. I've never experienced that before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humanflyz Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 I think there is some truth to the theory that the whole Denon AH-family phones are voiced differently. I recently got a pair of the AH-D1000s for portable, knock-around use, and they sound very different from the D5000s that I use to own. I was honeslty surprised because I thought that the whole line-up was voiced similarly, but apparently they might not be. I actually think the AH-D1000 sounds nothing like the D5000s, and if Denon actually made a full-sized version of D1000, that would sound better than the D5000s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fierce_freak Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 It makes me doubt my own ears a bit as I'll take your opinion over a lot of the herd over at Head-Fi. I actually compared my (at the time) balanced D2000 with thrice's D5000 back in July which is where I drew the conclusion of few differences between the two. That's really strange about the mids being so forward for you...I think the upper mids might stick out a bit to me, but I'd say the lower mids are a bit recessed or somewhat covered up by the large bottom end. So, maybe my ears are broke, too. Or you're just a spoiled brat ;p -edit- now I want to hear the two side by side again in a more quiet environment (they don't isolate much)...eh, why bother. I'm so happy with the RS-1 I'm set for awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomana Posted October 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 It makes me doubt my own ears a bit as I'll take your opinion over a lot of the herd over at Head-Fi. I actually compared my (at the time) balanced D2000 with thrice's D5000 back in July which is where I drew the conclusion of few differences between the two. That's really strange about the mids being so forward for you...I think the upper mids might stick out a bit to me, but I'd say the lower mids are a bit recessed or somewhat covered up by the large bottom end. So, maybe my ears are broke, too. Or you're just a spoiled brat ;p I'm not hearing the lower end that everyone keeps blabbing on about. It's certainly not missing (and a little loose at that), but the mids just take over. I agree that its predominately the upper mids, but the lower mids are only recessed in comparison. It's still the tone and lack of space between notes and instruments that bothers me most. I could live with everything else. Okay, no. That's a lie. Nevermind. So markl just posted a mini review of the D5000s. Other than he credits them with way more bass than I heard (am I a basshead and just don't know it ), and needing more burn in (wtf?) and power than makes sense (Thrice's Beta, my Extreme P., and Gene's assorted amp stash aint slouches), I agree with many of his impressions. The funny thing is that he slants his comments as positives, whereas I took many of the same impressions as negatives. So there it is. I'm now abandoning the Denons for good, and putting them in their box as there's nothing more I want to hear. I've given them a fairer shake than I would most cans I disliked instantly. It's back to some R10 love. Gonna find me a big, ole messy symphony, sit back and enjoy. Spoiled brat signing out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 I remember hearing agile_one's D5000 for the first time at the national and they sounded okayyy but mushed together with poor separation. And they didn't scale well with better amps at all. Unlike the W5000. Never been a big fan. But yeah they don't have a lot of competition in the closed headphone realm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabbi1 Posted October 7, 2007 Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 Well, you've convinced me - D2000 inbound. These are for work, and I would rather see them go than my RP-21 (see? Dual FOTM). Actually, I needed something closed and balanced, and opportunity came knocking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomana Posted October 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 Well, you've convinced me - D2000 inbound. These are for work, and I would rather see them go than my RP-21 (see? Dual FOTM). Actually, I needed something closed and balanced, and opportunity came knocking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephas Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 As for the Ultrasones, Earl, I think you, me, and Elephas were all alone there in the Ultrazone for awhile, pegged as enemies in a sacred land. That was freaky. Do you remember how everyone ganged up on poor Elephas, straight out attacked you, and decided, in a group decision, that my pair must be broken since I couldn't possibly hear things the way I did? Hey, someone noticed poor little ol' me getting beat up! Can you be my Head-Fi mommy (no, not nanny)? Follow-up my posts with soothing comments, bitch at anyone who disagrees with me and buy headphones for me? And maybe "Uncle Earl" can give me some free NOS tubes? Happy day, happy, happy, happy!!! ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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