Educational Thread Crap from What Are You Drinking Topic

[jinp6301]

The problem, as I see it, all comes down to tenure They can't fire the asshole teachers, so they just inflate their classes' grades

damn right

btw, good job on the other site guys

[ojnihs]

i'm too lazy to go to the start of this teacher discussion, but don't even get me started on asshole teachers. Northwestern was full of them.

[jinp6301]

i'm too lazy to go to the start of this teacher discussion, but don't even get me started on asshole teachers. Northwestern was full of them.

really? I was looking there for grad school

yea that kevin gilmore's there isint he ?

[grawk]

And I'd send you a resume, but I'm already intimidated enough by you.

Bah, I'm not even the manager for the person being hired I'm just doing some of the interviewing.

[JBLoudG20]

Bah, I'm not even the manager for the person being hired I'm just doing some of the interviewing.

As we spoke... YGEM

[postjack]

college is stupid, the real action is at Star Fleet Academy.

x2. star fleet academy rules all.

[Dusty Chalk]

Except that grading shouldn't be done on a curve. Either you learn the material or you don't. Curves are why colleges turn out morons.

Except that teachers are the ones writing the tests. What if they write the tests so that they have to curve? The most extreme example I can think of was one teacher I had at UMCP whose test had 4 questions: 1 was easy; 2 were hard; and 1 was impossible, so most of the grades went from 25-75% in an almost straight bell curve instead of 50-100%. He even explained himself that he liked it more spread out. One time he screwed up and made 2 questions well nigh impossible. Median grade on that one was 27 -- I got around 50 or 60 I think. It was my first test with him, and I was almost crying (I had never done that badly on a test before) until other people started talking to me (two girls -- ended up with many late night "study sessions" with both of them) and explained to me that I had one of the highest grades in the class, if not the highest.

[ojnihs]

really? I was looking there for grad school

yea that kevin gilmore's there isint he ?

Haha yeah Kevin sure is there. I didn't have a chance to meet up with him while I was there though.

Yeah, Northwestern is notorious for its weed out classes and the incredibly ridiculous grading policies there.

[jinp6301]

Haha yeah Kevin sure is there. I didn't have a chance to meet up with him while I was there though.

Yeah, Northwestern is notorious for its weed out classes and the incredibly ridiculous grading policies there.

ugh, no likey worky

[grawk]

Except that teachers are the ones writing the tests. What if they write the tests so that they have to curve? The most extreme example I can think of was one teacher I had at UMCP whose test had 4 questions: 1 was easy; 2 were hard; and 1 was impossible, so most of the grades went from 25-75% in an almost straight bell curve instead of 50-100%. He even explained himself that he liked it more spread out. One time he screwed up and made 2 questions well nigh impossible. Median grade on that one was 27 -- I got around 50 or 60 I think. It was my first test with him, and I was almost crying (I had never done that badly on a test before) until other people started talking to me (two girls -- ended up with many late night "study sessions" with both of them) and explained to me that I had one of the highest grades in the class, if not the highest.

He could assign points to the problems such that the 50 was 100.

[Dusty Chalk]

I think you mean 75 (50 was theoretically the average == C), but you're still wrong -- it was still theoretically possible for a student to get a hundred (he always put problems on the test to see if "someone out there" had the brilliance to figure out the answer, and very infrequently did). So doing that would push the highest score way above 100.

But what you're basically doing is getting semantic on me -- that's effectively preparing the numbers beforehand and not calling it a "curve". It was his choice that the numbers turned out between 25 and 75, so what you're saying is, if it had been his choice so that the numbers turned out between 50 and 100, he could have -- and I completely agree, but the whole point is to assign C's to the average students, B's to the above average students, and A's to the highest ranking students, and he did that and successfully.

I don't disagree with curves. And "one student" ruining it for the rest of them should fit in a bell curve, too -- statistically, there should be one student way up there. What I disagree with is their implementation. If one student getting a hundred ruins the curve, then you're doing it wrong. The teacher I was referring to always drew distribution charts, and they usually more or less resembled a bell curve. (That first one was an anomaly, it was all distorted towards the bottom of the spectrum. Looked like someone had taken a bar graph and shaken it and tilted it backwards so that all the bars fell towards the bottom of the graph.) And then he would draw lines showing where the C's were, the B's were, and the A's were, and said, "if this were your final score for the class, this is what your grade would be." The tests were used both as part of the final score of the class, and as a gauge to tell you, the student, how you were doing in the class.

My point is, teachers are human, and their ability to write a "perfect" test that the average student should get a 75 on is not necessarily perfect, hence the need for a curve. I admit that it could just as well be the inability of the students to learn the material, but that's where judgment calls come in. In the case of the above teacher -- he was usually pretty much right on the mark, so was beyond reproach. (Yes, even by you.)

[grawk]

My point is, teachers are human, and their ability to write a "perfect" test that the average student should get a 75 on is not necessarily perfect, hence the need for a curve. I admit that it could just as well be the inability of the students to learn the material, but that's where judgment calls come in. In the case of the above teacher -- he was usually pretty much right on the mark, so was beyond reproach. (Yes, even by you.)

My point is teachers jobs are to teach the material, and grade on their ability to do it. If a student can do 200% of what's required, that doesn't mean they get a 100. If they can do the material without flaw, that's 100%. Above that, give extra credit or not, I don't give a shit. If you need a curve to judge, instead of just basing it on measurable criteria, and you're not talking about liberal arts courses, you're doing something wrong. And you're gonna turn out a bunch of overrated morons. And should get fired.

[Dusty Chalk]

I understood your point even before that post, my point was that the teachers are also the ones coming up with the criteria for judging whether or not they are successfully teaching. You call that an inherent flaw in the system, I call it grading on a curve. Unless you have a solution (academic internal affairs?), I suggest you accept that it is the system, whether you like it or not.

[grawk]

I understood your point even before that post, my point was that the teachers are also the ones coming up with the criteria for judging whether or not they are successfully teaching. You call that an inherent flaw in the system, I call it grading on a curve. Unless you have a solution (academic internal affairs?), I suggest you accept that it is the system, whether you like it or not.

I do have a solution. I consider a college degree irrelevant, and don't consider it at all in hiring. And I lament pubically the state of the american university system, and suggest people spend the time they owuld have spent in college in the army or working to learn a trade. Unless they don't need to earn a living later in life, then I suggest they study whatever the hell they want, and milk it as long as they can.

[Dusty Chalk]

Funny, that is almost verbatim what I did (I haven't been to school since 1986, though I do have two BS's [twice as much BS!]). Alas, not all employers feel that way -- a lot of them really put a lot of value in that sheepskin, if for no other reason so that they can sell it to their clients.

[grawk]

Funny, that is almost verbatim what I did (I haven't been to school since 1986, though I do have two BS's [twice as much BS!]). Alas, not all employers feel that way -- a lot of them really put a lot of value in that sheepskin, if for no other reason so that they can sell it to their clients.

More power to them. I only care about the people I'm trying to hire

[grawk]

hire me to be a cool dude around the building!

...

[grawk]

You don't wanna work for the weather service. You want to work for the post office

[grawk]

isn't welly wu trying to work at the post office? no thanks.

...

[Dusty Chalk]

isn't welly wu trying to work at the post office? no thanks.

cuz there is only one, you know. in the whole country.

Whut? Remember, he's antisocial, you won't have to interact with him.

Is he still on Head-Fi?

[909]

didn't need to see that good sir.

[909]

it's just a dog shitting down.

you missed a letter

[jinp6301]

i'm a college student too; i seem to know plenty

you seem to have missed the key word retarted

[909]

i missed no word, for that is no word.

you missed a letter, don't forget it.

[909]

hard matter stool