Heroes

[Chekhonte]

I haven't finished season one yet. I'm 14 chapters in and am totally addicted. Between this and Halo 3 every muscle in my body with be atrophied by next month.

So did anybody catch the season 2 premier yesterday? With out spoiling anything how do you like how the season is starting out?

[grawk]

I haven't finished season one yet. I'm 14 chapters in and am totally addicted. Between this and Halo 3 every muscle in my body with be atrophied by next month.

So did anybody catch the season 2 premier yesterday? With out spoiling anything how do you like how the season is starting out?

Now that we know hiro is a space alien brought down by his dad to fight gamura, things have really gotten interesting. He gained the ability to turn into an 80 ft tall lizard, in addition to his other talents. So yah, great start to the new season.

[en480c4]

I thought Heroes was entertaining through 1/2 to 2/3 of the 1st season, but IMO it really lost steam and by the end I found watching it to be a bit of a chore. It felt more like an obligation than something I was really looking forward to. It just seemed like their ambition was beyond their ability to execute. I'll give season 2 a shot, but I'm fully prepared to walk away, despite the cheerleader...

[Salt Peanuts]

I thought Heroes was entertaining through 1/2 to 2/3 of the 1st season, but IMO it really lost steam and by the end I found watching it to be a bit of a chore. It felt more like an obligation than something I was really looking forward to. It just seemed like their ambition was beyond their ability to execute. I'll give season 2 a shot, but I'm fully prepared to walk away, despite the cheerleader...

You know, that sort of sounds like the Wheel of Time series. Fortunately for me, I stopped reading few books back in the series. It's author, Robert Jordan, passed away couple of weeks ago without finishing the series.

[grawk]

he died? i knew he was very ill, but i was hoping he would finish. i'd been reading that damned series since middle school! it wasn't been good for ages, but i just wanted to finish the damn thing!

I quit reading 1/3 of the way through book 7. I've never quit a series like that before, but damn, that 7th book was complete crap. 800 pages of braid tugging.

[philodox]

Man, I fucking hate wheel of time. Not sure when I stopped, but it was pretty early on. Still, I'm sorry that he is dead. Must really suck for those that hung in for the long haul...

[Salt Peanuts]

Man, I fucking hate wheel of time. Not sure when I stopped, but it was pretty early on. Still, I'm sorry that he is dead. Must really suck for those that hung in for the long haul...

My best friend was one those - he kept reading the new books just waiting for something to happen, then he died. He called me in middle of a work day to tell me that. He was not pleased.

[Salt Peanuts]

maybe the last book will be published in a 22 page comic form. i would probably buy that. or, like, one page: "rand fucks those chicks of his, and then kills the dark one by weaving a braid with which to tug. the end."

ROTFLMAO

[postjack]

Truly sad about the passing of Robert Jordan. I stopped at book four and honestly think WoT represents the worst in epic fat fantasy, but still he was one of the big names in this genre I love so much. Actually Terry Goodkind represents the worst in epic fat fantasy. And Steven Erikson represents the best in epic fat fantasy. Malazan is soooo awesome.

[philodox]

Actually Terry Goodkind represents the worst in epic fat fantasy.

Terry Goodkind can get a little tedious, but no way is he 'the worst' in comparison to Robert Jordan!

[postjack]

Terry Goodkind can get a little tedious, but no way is he 'the worst' in comparison to Robert Jordan!

admittedly I haven't read all of WoT or all of SoT, but based on the four books I read in each series before I wised up, Goodkind is the worst. First, Richard and Kahlan are the worst couple ever in history. Second, all the excuses Richard makes to not go hone his art with Zed are ridiculous, the WORST use of delay tactics to prolong a story I've ever come across in a genre that is rife with them. "Oh Zed I know if I don't train my power it'll get me sick and I'll explode or whatever, but I don't have time for that now because I have to go map the hidden deserts of the sand people or whatever". And in the first book, Darth Vader or whatever the fuck is name is bans fire, because he was burnt as a child? Wow thats so deep Terry Goodkind. And then he gets into all that weird quasi-communist speech that totally comes out of nowhere. Plus in real lilfe Goodkind is a prick who swears he doesn't read any fantasy, when obviously he borrows half his shit from Robert Jordan.

[grawk]

admittedly I haven't read all of WoT or all of SoT, but based on the four books I read in each series before I wised up, Goodkind is the worst. First, Richard and Kahlan are the worst couple ever in history. Second, all the excuses Richard makes to not go hone his art with Zed are ridiculous, the WORST use of delay tactics to prolong a story I've ever come across in a genre that is rife with them. "Oh Zed I know if I don't train my power it'll get me sick and I'll explode or whatever, but I don't have time for that now because I have to go map the hidden deserts of the sand people or whatever". And in the first book, Darth Vader or whatever the fuck is name is bans fire, because he was burnt as a child? Wow thats so deep Terry Goodkind. And then he gets into all that weird quasi-communist speech that totally comes out of nowhere. Plus in real lilfe Goodkind is a prick who swears he doesn't read any fantasy, when obviously he borrows half his shit from Robert Jordan.

Jordan went WAY downhill with book 7. So if you stopped at 4, you might not realize just how amazingly bad it got.

[postjack]

Jordan went WAY downhill with book 7. So if you stopped at 4, you might not realize just how amazingly bad it got.

i'll take your word for it.

[grawk]

I disagree wrt Piers or Pern. Bad, but not in the same universe of bad.

[postjack]

still not as bad as Piers Anthony, or any of that Pern shit.

luckily there is so much GOOD fantasy and sci-fi out there that I don't have to read a bunch of tired old shit. In a world with Jeff Vandermeer (the fucking KING), Steven Erikson, Jeffrey Ford, China Mieville, Neil Gaiman, and M. John Harrison, I don't have to waste my time on the Goodkinds and Jordans of the world.

[grawk]

luckily there is so much GOOD fantasy and sci-fi out there that I don't have to read a bunch of tired old shit. In a world with Jeff Vandermeer (the fucking KING), Steven Erikson, Jeffrey Ford, China Mieville, Neil Gaiman, and M. John Harrison, I don't have to waste my time on the Goodkinds and Jordans of the world.

I all but abandonned fantasy (with the exception of harry potter, which has more to do with my having kids than actually enjoying the writing) about 10 years ago. I still read some SF and horror, tho not much hard sf. Tim Powers, Bruce Sterling, William Gibson, John Shirley, etc.

[grawk]

have you read Spook Country, Dan? not really Sci-fi, but i really like it.

i've been reading Iain Banks Culture series, which i also like a lot.

I haven't. Amazon link pls? or mail me the book

[postjack]

There has been a resurgence of new thinking and creativity in the fantasy genre in the past decade, a collection of young writers who rever Michael Moorcock and M. John Harrison. I already mentioned some of their names: Jeff Vandermeer, China Mieville, Jeffery Ford, and of course Gaiman, amongst others. Some people are dubbing this group "New Weird". Its an apt enough description.

[elnero]

I thought WoT had so much potential early on then it just sank into drudgery, I don't know when I stopped reading it but it was quite some time ago now. Terry Goodkind's stuff has been OK, I thought it had moments of being really good and moments of being crap. The writer I've most like from the epic fantasy genre has been George R.R. Martin. I've quite enjoyed his books although I haven't had a chance to read his latest because I got caught up reading R. Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing series. Great concept but had some aspects to the writing that just made it really difficult, for some reason I felt I had to finish it even though it took forever. I'm reading Garth Nix's Lirael now which is a total change of pace.

[postjack]

I thought WoT had so much potential early on then it just sank into drudgery, I don't know when I stopped reading it but it was quite some time ago now. Terry Goodkind's stuff has been OK, I thought it had moments of being really good and moments of being crap. The writer I've most like from the epic fantasy genre has been George R.R. Martin. I've quite enjoyed his books although I haven't had a chance to read his latest because I got caught up reading R. Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing series. Great concept but had some aspects to the writing that just made it really difficult, for some reason I felt I had to finish it even though it took forever. I'm reading Garth Nix's Lirael now which is a total change of pace.

Ooh, R. Scott Bakker's "Prince Of Nothing" was remarkable. I agree that it was a difficult read, a bit too heady at times, but you have to admit its a hell of an accomplishment for an author's first series. Achamian is such a great character though, and the final scene in the final book was soooo punk rock, I love it. Bakker's supposed to be doing a sci-fi thing next.

[elnero]

Ooh, R. Scott Bakker's "Prince Of Nothing" was remarkable. I agree that it was a difficult read, a bit too heady at times, but you have to admit its a hell of an accomplishment for an author's first series. Achamian is such a great character though, and the final scene in the final book was soooo punk rock, I love it. Bakker's supposed to be doing a sci-fi thing next.

Yes, it definitely was quite an accomplishment and for the most part I enjoyed it. What irritated me the most about it was his introduction of characters, places, events, etc. that either had no relevance or were killed off ten pages later. And I agree Achamian was a great character. It will be interesting to see what he comes up with next. I've got a bunch of books that I haven't had a chance to read yet but after I do I'll have to check some of the author's you listed. Any particular authors/books that stand out as exceptional must reads?

[postjack]

i'm a big Michael Moorcock fan, so i'll check out the people you've mentioned (i've read quite a bit of Gaiman...).

China Mieville is probably the most popular after Gaiman. His most popular works include Perdido Street Station, The Scar, and The Iron Council. PSS was his first, probably the best place to start.

Jeffrey Ford is another brilliant mind. He has a series called "The Well-Built City" which starts with [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Physiognomy-Jeffrey-Ford/dp/0380793326/ref=pd_sim_b_shvl_title_2/103-0220401-0351813?ie=UTF8&qid=1190920242&sr=8-5]The Physiognomy[/ame].

However, my favorite is Jeff Vandermeer. His most essential work is [ame=http://www.amazon.com/City-Saints-Madmen-Jeff-Vandermeer/dp/0553383574/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-0220401-0351813?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190920381&sr=1-1]City of Saints and Madmen: The Book Of Ambergris[/ame]. This is actually a collection of short stories set in his mythical and overall fucked city of Ambergris. CoSaM, while an amazing read in and of itself, provides essential background information necessary to fully appreciate Vandermeer's first true novel, [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Shriek-Afterword-Jeff-VanderMeer/dp/0765314665/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/103-0220401-0351813?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190920493&sr=1-2]Shriek: An Afterword[/ame]. Basically Shriek is the sequel to one of the short stories in CoSaM, written from the perspective of the sister of the narrator of the short story, which is a history of Ambergris. So I wholeheartedly reading CoSaM, and if you think its cool, then check out Shriek. Taken together, they are one of the most outstanding stories I've read.

For a quick read of Vandermeer's not set in Ambergris, check out his novella Veniss Underground, which is horror/sci-fi. Its layers and layers and layers of fucked-upness. Layers, I tell you.

So while I'm digging up those amazon links, I stumble across this upcoming anthology: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/New-Weird-Ann-VanderMeer/dp/1892391554/ref=pd_bbs_3/103-0220401-0351813?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190920669&sr=1-3]The New Weird[/ame], ed. Ann and Jeff Vandermeer. The blurb sums up the new weird well:

"This avant-garde anthology that presents and defines the New Weird?a hip, stylistic fiction that evokes the gritty exuberance of pulp novels and dime-store comic books?creates a new literature that is entirely unprecedented and utterly compelling. Assembling an array of talent, this collection includes contributions from visionaries Michael Moorcock and China Mi?ville, modern icon Clive Barker, and audacious new talents Hal Duncan, Jeffrey Ford, and Sarah Monette. An essential snapshot of a vibrant movement in popular fiction, this anthology also features critical writings from authors, theorists, and international editors as well as witty selections from online debates."

Also, here is Jeff Vandermeer's working definition for New Weird, taken from a recent entry on his blog:

"New Weird is a type of urban, secondary-world fiction that subverts the romanticized ideas about place found in traditional fantasy, largely by choosing realistic, complex real-world models as the jumping off point for creation of settings that may combine elements of both science fiction and fantasy. New Weird has a visceral, in-the-moment quality that often uses elements of surreal or transgressive horror for its tone, style, and effects? in combination with the stimulus of influence from New Wave writers or their proxies (including also such forebears as Mervyn Peake and the French/ English Decadents). New Weird fictions are acutely aware of the modern world, even if in disguise, but not always overtly political. As part of this awareness of the modern world, New Weird relies for its visionary power on a ?surrender to the weird? that isn?t, for example, hermetically sealed in a haunted house on the moors or in a cave in Antarctica. The ?surrender? (or ?belief?) of the writer can take many forms, some of them even involving the use of postmodern techniques that do not undermine the surface reality of the text."

[postjack]

Yes, it definitely was quite an accomplishment and for the most part I enjoyed it. What irritated me the most about it was his introduction of characters, places, events, etc. that either had no relevance or were killed off ten pages later. And I agree Achamian was a great character. It will be interesting to see what he comes up with next. I've got a bunch of books that I haven't had a chance to read yet but after I do I'll have to check some of the author's you listed. Any particular authors/books that stand out as exceptional must reads?

Yes, Bakker is definitely guilty of infodump overload, and we might could say he could have benefited from a strong editor. I'm hoping he continues to refine his craft and mature in his writing. The best is yet to come for Bakker, me thinks.

As for exceptional must reads, check out my above post I was typing while you were typing.

[elnero]

Yes, Bakker is definitely guilty of infodump overload, and we might could say he could have benefited from a strong editor. I'm hoping he continues to refine his craft and mature in his writing. The best is yet to come for Bakker, me thinks.

As for exceptional must reads, check out my above post I was typing while you were typing.

I hope Bakker matures, like you I feel the best is yet to come.

Thanks for the list, I'll definitely be checking those out!!!

[philodox]

i stopped reading Goodkind about three books in. i think Eddings is worst, as the Belgariad and the Elenium and the Malorean and the Tamuli are exactly the same stories. still kinda cool, though, especially frigging Sparkhawk. he was truly the Master Chief of his world.

I noticed the similarities too, which turned be off the Sparhawk series. Since I read the Belgaraid/Malorean first that will always be the one for me. The characters were great and it has some of the best war coverage that I've seen in any fantasy series.

Plus in real lilfe Goodkind is a prick who swears he doesn't read any fantasy, when obviously he borrows half his shit from Robert Jordan.

That I didn't know, but Robert Jordan is the biggest fucking Tolkien clone out there. Gimmie a break!

still not as bad as Piers Anthony, or any of that Pern shit.

I assume you are talking about Xanth? Ever read Incarnations of Immortality or any of his older Sci-Fi or fantasy? Piers is awesome when he gets it right... though I'm with you on Pern.

Anyone here a fan of R. A. MacAvoy or Judith Tarr? I love their 'historical' fantasy, great stuff. Guy Gavriel Kay is also a lot of fun.

Another one like Piers [which has good and bad days] is Marion Zimmer Bradley... The Avalon stuff - garbage. Her earlier works like Darkover, etc are all very worth while though in my opinion.