Home theater help....

[DigiPete]

I may be wrong, but DVI is 8bit video vs. HDMI which is 10 bit. DVI is just dead technology.

There are also colorspace translation problems at times.

The outlaw receiver probably just passes the dvi signal, so no issues there.

Mostly its displays trying to read conveted signals, or sources not putting out the right DVI signal,

where problems arise.

[KenW]

A PS3? Really? I know next to nothing about game consoles so that's a shock to say the least. They actually play HD or BluRay? Seriously.....a game console! Who woulda thunk it?? Guess I've been out of the game system loop for way too long. Think my last game was "Pong" by Atari.

Btw, I'd really love to know more about this Samsung unit due out in a few months. What are its capabilities? Do we know of a model/name that I can research? Of course, I tell my son or daughter that I'm going for a PS3 as my player and they'd be all over it!

[tkam]

Where have you been . One of the PS3's big selling points is its ability to play blu-ray. Coincidentally it also happens to be just about the best blu-ray available at the moment.

[tkam]

The samsung unit is the BDP-UP5000 and as of now its scheduled for an october/novemeber release.

[hungrych]

Well the Xbox 360 has an addon HD-DVD drive which is like 150 iirc.

But one thing that you should know is that the 360 is loud as hell...

[KenW]

Where have you been . One of the PS3's big selling points is its ability to play blu-ray. Coincidentally it also happens to be just about the best blu-ray available at the moment.

Pong? Atari? I know we've bought game systems for the kids over the years, but don't know diddly about their specs or capabilities. Amazed that a game can do Blu-Ray. Still, I don't see myself playing games so I'll probably wait on the Samsung BDP-UP5000. Big question is do I buy the Denon player, too? Heck, I can keep my Opus 21 for CD playback and just snag the Samsung in a couple more months. I'll be knee deep in the football season so I doubt I'd be missing DVD material that much anyway. Too many damned decisions in this home theater business!

[DigiPete]

Why not get both a HD-DVD player and BR

The Tosh HD-A2 is an excellent unit (I have one) and can be had new for <$300.

It is at a level of maturity that only the latest BR players are just going to achieve.

If hi-rez audio is not a requirement, skip the Denon 3930, and get a Tosh HD XA2 which does CD, DVD and HD-DVD,

and has a very decent video processor (Silicon Optix HQ Reon VX).

You could always keep your OPUS for real audiophile sound quality.

[KenW]

Why not get both a HD-DVD player and BR

The Tosh HD-A2 is an excellent unit (I have one) and can be had new for <$300.

It is at a level of maturity that only the latest BR players are just going to achieve.

If hi-rez audio is not a requirement, skip the Denon 3930, and get a Tosh HD XA2 which does CD, DVD and HD-DVD,

and has a very decent video processor (Silicon Optix HQ Reon VX).

You could always keep your OPUS for real audiophile sound quality.

I do want the hi-rez option but buying two players just bothers me. I know the technology is still in its infancy and things will continue to shake out. If the Samsung does come in at $550 or so, that's a flexible/single box solution although no one has a clue about its ability in CD playback. I could keep the opus for that, but I'm pretty sure most, if not all, my listening will be via the Transporter. It can't touch the Opus but the convenience of the Transporter has me spoiled. Guess I'm willing to sacrifice some quality for convenience. Guess I could go ahead with the Denon 3930 for DVD/CD and wait on the hi-rez to shake out but I'm not a patient sort and this format war seems to have no end in sight. A single box like the Samsung gives me security against having a betamax-type piece of gear laying around.

So far, I've decided on 3 components in my new home theater.....the Denon AVR-3808CI will be the receiver. I'm pretty sure I'll grab the Samsung BDP-UP5000 when it's released as it looks like a very tidy one box solution to my hi-rez DVD needs. The Denon DVD-3930CI will be my fallback if I decide to skip the hi-rez option for the time being. I also have the Pioneer PRO-FHD1 as my new HDTV. Sadly, both the TV and receiver are on order so I've got a wait ahead of me. It's two months or more until the Samsung is available so I'm stuck! Guess it's time to refocus on the speakers.

Right now, I'm not planning a dedicated amp for the speakers so I'm beginning to wonder about the wisdom of buying a really nice pair of speakers for 2 channel listening and trying to fill in the rest of the surround setup with units from another manufacturer. Maybe it's best to simply buy a very nice surround setup and forget the 2 channel? Would the Denon be able to do nice speakers justice? Of course, if I pick the right pair of speakers, I guess I might be able to skip the sub and save a few $$? Plus I haven't looked seriously at speakers in years. Don't know much about the brands out there. Pretty lost really. Back in the day of limited funds/college, we could swing stuff like Klipsch and Infinity but not much else. Clueless on speakers and it's pretty easy to make a mistake. Presently, my home theater surround sound is via.....<gulp>....Bose. Hoping someone can help me avoid such foolishness this time around.

If I could find a nice pair of speakers that the Denon could drive well and a source to fill in the rest of the surround system for under $3K that would be great.

[DigiPete]

Unless you listen at insane levels with super inefficient speakers, the Denon will drive pretty much any speaker decently.

You definitely need a sub . dot

Home theater (movies) use lots of sub type bass, which you can't get very well from even

really big speakers.

HSU research makes realy nice ones that are well regarded and very reasonably priced.

I have the STF 3 model. The new VTF3 MK III would be perfect for you.

I have some Boston Acoustics VR2s (which I am now selling due to purchase of Paradigms)

and Boston VR910 center (now also for sale), and Boston CR65s for the surrounds and have been happy with them all.

[KenW]

Thanks for the sub link, Pete. Kinda figured I wasn't going to be able to skip that. I almost picked up some Paradigms a while back but at the time, a two channel setup was down on my list of priorities. My nearest dealer is a couple of hours away though. They don't seem to have a lot of online sources do they?

[DigiPete]

Agon

[KenW]

Agon

LOL....I was close.....AVDepot.

[KenW]

Btw, what do you think about AV123 speakers? The speaker equal of the Outlaw gear? Great bang for the buck.

[DigiPete]

I was really interested in those too,

but I did find too much audiophile chatter on these from magazines or other places.

Hearing the speakers is really important if possible

[Dusty Chalk]

The quality of the dvd player does matter, even if you send the signal over HDMI to a display.

First of all there is the decoding, and upscaling, all in the player; its video processor makes a difference

What decoding, audio? I already explained how if you go over the digital connection, the player doesn't need to do the decoding. And I did say that if the upscaling was done in the player, it was important, but if you had a TV or outboard unit, and you weren't going to use your players internal upscaling, then its upscaling didn't matter, and I stand by that.

Also, HDMI/DVI can carry both digital and analog video signals, which is why I kept saying "digital" instead of HDMI. It'll definitely make a difference if you use the analog signal portion, but will make much less of a difference if you use digital and do not use the players internal scaling. Not "no difference", but "much less of a difference". Same as a CD transport makes a difference if you use an external upsampler and DAC. I doubt you'd be able to see the difference.

In terms of TV's, I've heard good things about LCOS, but that's a projector. Ask around over at audioreview.com forums -- they have some good HT people there. A lot of arguing, but there's a small handful of very active, very helpful people. More for video -- their audio expertise seems to be separated into the hardcore planar crowd, and the high-middlin' Paradigm crowd.

[Dusty Chalk]

Btw, what do you think about AV123 speakers? The speaker equal of the Outlaw gear? Great bang for the buck.

I've heard nothing but good things about their speakers, and one of their speaker designers is a really good guy -- responded to an email to me directly, a newb.

[KenW]

I've heard nothing but good things about their speakers, and one of their speaker designers is a really good guy -- responded to an email to me directly, a newb.

Just finished spending the morning on their website/forum. Looks like a solid choice and a nice little starter speaker setup. Just sent an email to see about getting some help designing a setup for my home theater. Biggest complaint so far is not being able to get decent pictures of the finish options. I'd like to match my existing cabinetry but there's simply no link that I can find that will let me view all the finish options. Search turned up some of his new veneers but not what I need to see. Still, I'm sure it's there. Just have to find it. Of course, you can't really go wrong with black so maybe that's the safe bet. Goes with everything, right? My other option and probably a big step up is the Paradigm line. There's a dealer about 2 hours from my home so that's another possibility.

Getting a bit frustrated about the Denon receiver though. The 3808 is on order but no one knows when and how many will arrive. No guarantee I'll get one of those that do show up. Heck, as long as that Pioneer shows up in the next couple of weeks, I'll be a happy camper. Wish HDMI were an option with Outlaw. The more I read about their stuff the more interested I get.

[DigiPete]

What decoding, audio?

I was thinking along the lines of video processing and upscaling.

centain faroudja chipsets exhibit macroblocking artifacts regardless of whether you send out the signal over HDMI or use the analog video outs.

There is also the noise reduction algorythms and daigonal lines (jaggies),

chroma upsampling error, and other digital artifacts, suchthat the player will always be a factor.

[en480c4]

Ken,

I just saw in the other thread that you have a Harmony remote.

Doesn't that make HDMI switching in the receiver redundant if you have enough inputs on your TV?

With my setup, I had all of my HD sources going directly to the HDMI inputs on the TV, and had the Harmony switch TV inputs when choosing the "activity" I wanted to do.

Without a Harmony, I could see having to switch TV inputs would be a pain to do, but with the Harmony, it's just adding a step to each activity command list.

Just food for thought, as it would open a lot of doors for receivers.

[KenW]

Yes, it is a bit redundant. What other receivers do you recommend?

[en480c4]

Nothing in particular, I just figured it might open the door to some other options. I'm a big fan of Outlaw stuff in general, and I really like the HK I'm currently using. But regardless, the remote gets rid of the big hassle of switching inputs, and it's one less thing you really have to worry about.

[KenW]

Well, I'll have 4 HDMI inputs on the Pioneer and can't imagine having more HD sources than 4 so that would work and certainly bring the Outlaw 990/7200 stack back into play. Btw, I'm assuming you have DirecTV or Dish? How are you connecting those with your TV and surround system?

[en480c4]

I had a Comcast DVR. I ran the audio from the DVR through coax to my receiver and it decoded the surroud there, with the video directly to the TV. I did the same thing with my DVD player. I didn't use the audio capabilities of the HDMI and just stuck with coax for the 5.1. And the coax/optical inputs are assignable on my receiver, so once it's set up correctly, it all goes where it's supposed to.

[grawk]

Yah, one of the first things i did was turn the speakers on my tv off

[grawk]

My girlfriend is looking for a basic hdmi/composite prepro to use for video switching between her dvd/appletv/vcr (yes, vcr) and her tube tv and htib.  I know.   I can't convince her to upgrade any of those things.  So I'm looking for something like an emotiva umc-1 or other pre-pro that can switch analog video and hdmi, and output composite, hdmi, and optical.  I can use an hdmi to analog converter at the last step if necessary.  Any suggestions?  Anyone have anything lying around after an upgrade?