postjack asks DIYer how much stuff costs

[postjack]

Hey-

Roundabouts how much would a balanced b22 cost to have built (by someone else, not me)?

just a range, thanks.

[thrice]

Well each one channel board for Beta 22 costs about $100-125 to build, you'll need four for balanced

One PS costs about $125-135 to build, you need at least one

Stepped attenuators cost about $200-400 depending on what you get and whether you go with one 4-ganged or two-stereo SA.

Then there's cases and here's where it gets tough to calculate. For a balanced amp you'll want two cases, one for the amp and one for the PS, figure on $200-400 depending on how nice you want the cases to be.

Then misc parts, jacks, wire, switches, ..etc, figure $100+ depeding on how crazy you get.

So grand total: $1025 minimum in parts, then tack on the builder's fee to that. If you had me build it (just as an example), I would charge ~$1500 for a bare-bones, no frills or added outputs/inputs/loopouts amp. I've been told by a few people that I should charge more, but the DIYFS market is quite fickle. People know how much this stuff costs and they tend to not value the time and effort it takes to make these amps. This particular amp can take a significant amount of time to build especially if you go balanced; there's a lot of internal wiring that needs to be taken care of.

I hope that helps.

[postjack]

I hope that helps.

it answers my question perfectly! thank you very much.

[Augsburger]

Hhhhmmmmm. time to start saving up those pennies. I would have thought more. I must not be tempted.

[n_maher]

In my humble experience and based on discussions with others who have far greater listening experience than myself I would say the following, paying less than 3 grand for a balanced beta22 is one of the better "bargains" in high end audio. Granted, with your average DIY build you're not going to end up with something as visually stunning as one of Justin's amps but if great sound is what you're all about then that wouldn't matter anyway. Stephen's price is absurdly cheap.

I'm currently revamping my beta22 plans. My original thoughts were for a 6 channel balanced build but I'm now pretty sure that I won't be going down that road. The complications of case size and wasted heat and power resources are pushing me towards a 4 channel build. Decisions, decisions...

[grawk]

Nate, just build 2 3 channel amps with a power supply that feeds both for a 3 case design

1 1/4" and 1 3pin out per amp

[JBLoudG20]

Nate, just build 2 3 channel amps with a power supply that feeds both for a 3 case design

1 1/4" and 1 3pin out per amp

The only thing that is saved, is case size. You still need two seperate PSU's, and will still waste the heat.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about the wasted heat My VanTOTL gets HOT HOT HOT.

[grawk]

The only thing that is saved, is case size. You still need two seperate PSU's, and will still waste the heat.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about the wasted heat My VanTOTL gets HOT HOT HOT.

You get the ability to add a power supply,and then have 2 amps that can be in 2 places at once. You also get the flexibility to arrange the 3 cases in a number of different ways

[n_maher]

Nate, just build 2 3 channel amps with a power supply that feeds both for a 3 case design

1 1/4" and 1 3pin out per amp

I'd honestly thought about doing that but with how expensive the cases are that I'm looking at it'd put me in the poor house. Also, I just don't see me using much in the way of single-ended headphones any more. My source will be balance and I'll be rewiring all of my headphones so the extra two boards for the ground channels would just sit there idling 99% of the time. Instead I'll probably build a 2-channel amp with those parts (since I already have them) and sell it to offset the absurdly expensive cases.

[n_maher]

Personally, I wouldn't worry about the wasted heat My VanTOTL gets HOT HOT HOT.

The Wheatfield runs pretty toasty as well, I think the surface temps are around 120F.

[JBLoudG20]

The Wheatfield runs pretty toasty as well, I think the surface temps are around 120F.

I'd like to measure mine. It gets pretty damn warm. the volume knob warms up, as does the plug to the headphone that is plugged into it

[n_maher]

I'd like to measure mine. It gets pretty damn warm. the volume knob warms up, as does the plug to the headphone that is plugged into it

Sounds about right. Before I fixed/modded my amp it ran even hotter, which was at times pretty frightening. I picked up a pretty cheap infrared thermometer from Harborfreight and it's already come in handy for checking things like whether or not a tube has cooled off enough to take out safely.

[JBLoudG20]

My thermometer:

loop:

touch tube();

if(smell(air)=="melting flesh")

{

remove(hands);

printf("FUCK OWW SHIT THAT's HOT");

sleep(10);

goto loop;

}

else

{

remove(tube);

printf("I'm so fly");

}

[postjack]

Also, I just don't see me using much in the way of single-ended headphones any more. My source will be balance and I'll be rewiring all of my headphones so the extra two boards for the ground channels would just sit there idling 99% of the time.

yes, when I go balanced, I'll be going all balanced. i'll send a truckful of cans to engima audio. these days I'm trying to weigh the differences between a $1500 balanced b22 and a $2000-$2500 Moon Audio Luna. With so few Lunas out amongst consumers I'm not expecting a critical shoot out between these two amps anytime soon.

[Iron_Dreamer]

In my humble experience and based on discussions with others who have far greater listening experience than myself I would say the following, paying less than 3 grand for a balanced beta22 is one of the better "bargains" in high end audio.

I'd certainly agree. A balanced B22 is a truly top-flight headphone amp, that can stand up to the likes for $8K+ digital sources, while powering anything up to efficient speakers. When compared against the cost of accompanying gear that's at the same performance level, the B22 is a relative bargain. If a well-known commercial builder made the B22, I'm sure it would cost $5K+.

[deepak]

yes, when I go balanced, I'll be going all balanced. i'll send a truckful of cans to engima audio. these days I'm trying to weigh the differences between a $1500 balanced b22 and a $2000-$2500 Moon Audio Luna. With so few Lunas out amongst consumers I'm not expecting a critical shoot out between these two amps anytime soon.

Get the XL Luna

[postjack]

Get the XL Luna

i'll start another thread about that later.

[deepak]

i'll start another thread about that later.

Could you post Roam's impressions on the thing (if he doesn't mind)?

[postjack]

Could you post Roam's impressions on the thing (if he doesn't mind)?

i asked his permission to repost his impressions, still waiting to hear back from him.

[hYdrociTy]

you can get a stepped pot and put in regular or exotic resistors yourself. That would cost maybe 50 bucks... So 100 for two of them.

[postjack]

okay, so not exactly how much stuff costs, but here is another DIY, or more specifically b22, question.

On thrice's b22 group buy page, he says:

"You choose a gain of 2, 5 or 8 (remember in balanced mode the gain is effectively doubled. My balanced amp has a gain of two and my low impedance cans get to the 4-5 step on the attenuators; do not move to 5 or 8 unless you primarily use high impedance headphones for a majority of the time)."

Lets say I were to be interested in a b22. My problem is my favorite cans impedance run the full spectrum from RS-1 to K340. So how about this: will even a gain of 2 give enough juice to crank up the K340 or HD650? I don't mind if I have to really swing those volume knobs to crank the tunes, I just would hate to limit the performance of my higher impedance cans just to get a bit more pot swing for my RS-1 or W5000.

Thanks again! D I Y = C O O L G U Y S

[Dusty Chalk]

Well, it's not so much about impedance as it is sensitivity. So list all your headphones, and we'll see if we can dig up all their sensitivities.

Also, how loudly do you listen to your headphones? And please, no "blow fool head off" statements. If you say that, I'll refer you to the ex-tank-drivers/all-Cerwin-Vega forum and stop helping you.

[DigiPete]

Volume control (or lack thereof) is one reason many folks don't like stepped attens...

[postjack]

Well, it's not so much about impedance as it is sensitivity. So list all your headphones, and we'll see if we can dig up all their sensitivities.

Also, how loudly do you listen to your headphones? And please, no "blow fool head off" statements. If you say that, I'll refer you to the ex-tank-drivers/all-Cerwin-Vega forum and stop helping you.

In all seriousness, I don't really think I listen that loud, but I don't have any kind of SPL meter to give you a real measurement. So, like, maybe kind of loud?

My current cans in regular rotation: RS1, W5000, HD650, K340.

[postjack]

did you sell your HP-2s, postjack?

yup, just posted them today.