Too much edition 9 love in Headfi....have u listened to them?

[Guest sacd lover]

k701 is not realistic sounding...oh god hell no.

The main issue with the Ultrasones is the diffused effect on Edition 9, they lack sharpness.

Also - unfortunately, unlike Ultrasones tries to make it out, Speakers are positioned always to aim at the user's middle

of the ear.

Lack sharpness .... the treble can drill holes in your ears. If you mean lacking sharpness .... referring to the dull, colored and recessed mids I would agree with you.

[MaloS]

Lack sharpness .... the treble can drill holes in your ears. If you mean lacking sharpness .... referring to the dull, colored and recessed mids I would agree with you.

I mean edge to tone. The treble does not drill my ears on Edition 9, iono wtf was with your pair...SR325i drills my ears, Proline does, not Edition 9. But there is an effect where the edge to the tone is poor. This type of effect generally occurs as a result of uneven treble.

[JBLoudG20]

The treble does not drill my ears on Edition 9, iono wtf was with your pair.

Well, I would image that is so, with the roll off, and all.

[aerius]

Ultrasone is the new Sony, I haven't heard one which I can tolerate, let alone like.

[philodox]

grados are probably the most unangled drivers in the headphone world.

Yeah, Grado's have the S-Paradox.

[slwiser]

Ultrasone must be the new Bose around here with such venom.

It is your loss and not mine. I have own my UE9 for four months and am glad to have it.

I have no venom for any headphone maker. And at some level I have enjoyed most of the popular headphones I have listened too.

By the way, what "sounds natural?" Note a rhetorical question, since apparently nothing really does. And what is natural about those musical distortions anyway from modern music?

[aerius]

It is your loss and not mine. I have own my UE9 for four months and am glad to have it.

If you like it that's cool, no one's telling you that you're not allowed to like it.

I have no venom for any headphone maker. And at some level I have enjoyed most of the popular headphones I have listened too.

I can't say that. Sometimes I can understand why a person would like a certain headphone even when I don't, for instance the Ety ER4. Too often, I'm left at a complete loss as to how someone could find something appealing when IMO, it has no redeeming qualities.

By the way, what "sounds natural?" Note a rhetorical question, since apparently nothing really does. And what is natural about those musical distortions anyway from modern music?

Black & white fallacies and false dilemas are cool. Let me rephrase the above for you, "no headphones sound 100% natural anyway, so who cares if the Ed.9 ain't natural? Modern music isn't natural, so who needs a natural sounding headphone?"

Some people still listen to these things called symphonies and orchestras, and this thing called live acoustic music, and they want their headphones to sound as close to the actual event as possible. If you don't, whatever, I don't care, and I don't think anyone else here would either. You're free to listen to and like whatever music you choose, and to have it sound the way you want it to, again, no one here is telling you're not allowed to do it though we may question or poke fun at your taste.

[Dusty Chalk]

By the way, what "sounds natural?" Note a rhetorical question, since apparently nothing really does. And what is natural about those musical distortions anyway from modern music?

[/lurk]Admittedly, most of the music does not "sound natural", but try listening to Cowboy Junkies' Trinity Sessions on a good pair of headphones and telling me that does not sound natural.

"Sounding natural" -- as a system -- to me means that it replicates the live experience. I'm not going to pretend that this is a cut'n'dry with headphones, as (a) there are very few binaural recordings, and you have ( your entire upstream chain to contend with, and © the concern as to whether or not the recording is an accurate recording, in that on some hypothetical perfect reproduction system, the output would match the input.[lurk]

[slwiser]

There has been some good discussion in the last couple of posts. Very well stated I have to say.

[postjack]

I don't have any venom towards the Ed. 9 or Ultrasone. Yes, I did buy them and spent lots of time with them in my own system.

My final analysis summarized: amazing bass (I didn't find it out of control, nor do I subscribe to the "bass cloud" phenomenon popularized by markl), cold midrange, and I couldn't quit put my finger on the treble. Sometimes it was bright, sometimes not so much. The soundstage is superb (yay s-logic). To me, the Ed. 9 was a can best listened to loud as hell, son, and it gave me some of the most visceral rock experiences of my headphone career on tracks like "March Of The Pigs" and any given heavy Opeth track. Its biggest failing to my ears was the cold midrange and the colored Ed. 9 "rubbery" sound. The "rubbery" sound reminded me of the Sennheiser "veil" sound. This comparison made me realize that, just like the Sennheiser "veil" doesn't bother me one bit, I'm sure there are those who are not at all bothered by the Ed. 9's "condom" sound, and this is fine. More power to those who enjoy it. The sound just isn't for me.

And no, I'm not just saying nice things because I'm in the middle of a sale for these phones.

[slwiser]

I don't have any venom towards the Ed. 9 or Ultrasone. Yes, I did buy them and spent lots of time with them in my own system.

My final analysis summarized: amazing bass (I didn't find it out of control, nor do I subscribe to the "bass cloud" phenomenon popularized by markl), cold midrange, and I couldn't quit put my finger on the treble. Sometimes it was bright, sometimes not so much. The soundstage is superb (yay s-logic). To me, the Ed. 9 was a can best listened to loud as hell, son, and it gave me some of the most visceral rock experiences of my headphone career on tracks like "March Of The Pigs" and any given heavy Opeth track. Its biggest failing to my ears was the cold midrange and the colored Ed. 9 "rubbery" sound. The "rubbery" sound reminded me of the Sennheiser "veil" sound. This comparison made me realize that, just like the Sennheiser "veil" doesn't bother me one bit, I'm sure there are those who are not at all bothered by the Ed. 9's "condom" sound, and this is fine. More power to those who enjoy it. The sound just isn't for me.

And no, I'm not just saying nice things because I'm in the middle of a sale for these phones.

Sometimes you say the nicest things.

I think the Yamamoto HA-02's mid-range warmth matches well with the UE9. Maybe it is the synergy that is doing it for me.

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Ultrasone is the new Sony, I haven't heard one which I can tolerate, let alone like.

Ehhh, keep them away from me then.

Biggie.

[Assorted]

Postjack describes exactly what I'm hearing, in my rather low end SS rig, compared to the considerably cheaper and more neutral headphones. Everything about the Ed. 9s in my opinion is superb, except for tone color. I've heard the worst of it when the violin literally sounds recessed until the harmonics layer reaches you. (xD condom sound)

Looks like a nice tube amp like what slwiser suggested is my next step.

[Cosmopragma]

I've just got the Edition 9 formerly owned by Postjack.

First impression:

Nice headstage and excellent imaging.

No metallic aftertaste like the Prolines I've auditioned.

I couldn't find the knob to reduce the bass though.

Please enlighten me.

Where is it?

Unmodded and unequalized these are headphones for the car audio crowd.

It's ridiculous.

I've just fiddled around with the foobar equalizer for a first test.

I'm talking about -6 dB here.

I dunno.

We all hear differently and blah, but 6dB?

Someone is deaf, and it's not me.

I don't know if I'll keep them.

Equalized they are great cans for metal.

And they are great as portable cans.

Yes, maybe they will become my new portable cans.

This way decadence becomes a new meaning.

$2200 (european price) portable fun cans that have to be equalized.

Nice headstage though.Did I mention it before?

[Guest sacd lover]

I've just got the Edition 9 formerly owned by Postjack.

First impression:

Nice headstage and excellent imaging.

No metallic aftertaste like the Prolines I've auditioned.

I couldn't find the knob to reduce the bass though.

Please enlighten me.

Where is it?

Unmodded and unequalized these are headphones for the car audio crowd.

It's ridiculous.

I've just fiddled around with the foobar equalizer for a first test.

I'm talking about -6 dB here.

I dunno.

We all hear differently and blah, but 6dB?

Someone is deaf, and it's not me.

I don't know if I'll keep them.

Equalized they are great cans for metal.

And they are great as portable cans.

Yes, maybe they will become my new portable cans.

This way decadence becomes a new meaning.

$2200 (european price) portable fun cans that have to be equalized.

Nice headstage though.Did I mention it before?

You are only dropping the bass 6db?

You must be a basshead!

Kidding .....

[Cosmopragma]

I've just dumped the Edition 9 I had recently purchased from postjack.

This was the hardest headphone sale so far.

The european Ultrasonistas do certainly crave for the Editions, but they don't have the money.I've spent quite a few hours answering questions via PM mostly asked by potential buyers from Australia and South Korea.

In the end a fellow German did buy them.He has got them today and his first impression is that these thingies do even sound worse than the headband looks and feels.

I guess No. 357 will soon be on the market again ......

[Iron_Dreamer]

Nomadic headphones!

[slwiser]

I am keeping mine at least for the long term.

The thing that I think is does strangely for me is on some tracks it appears to deconstruct the music into layers and layers for no apparent reason. For those I have to stop what I am doing, if I am doing something, and listen to see if something is wrong; finally deciding it is what the headphone is doing to the music. But otherwise, I really enjoy their sound.

[oicdn]

This isn't directed at anybody, but I find it kinda humorous that people want it to sound as life-like and accurate to the live performance as possible, yet, when a headphone replicates a hard hitting impactful bassline it's heard as 'too bass heavy'.

Example? People revel and awe at the sound of a K701 or HD600, and although they sound organic and realistic, IMO, they lack the hard hitting impact bass that a cello, bass drum hit, upright bass, or slap-bass guitar give you when you heard them live. Yet, people look for a "neutral" phone when looking for cans, but in a live performance, the bass carries the music and isn't "neutral" per say...

That said, I can't STAND horribly bloated bass, but at the same time, I think if you're trying to replicate the "live sound", you should be looking for a can that gives you as close to the visceral impact that alive performance gives you. I think there's a differences between live performance and studio sound, in which case, I think most people are more after the latter....

[Guest sacd lover]

This isn't directed at anybody, but I find it kinda humorous that people want it to sound as life-like and accurate to the live performance as possible, yet, when a headphone replicates a hard hitting impactful bassline it's heard as 'too bass heavy'.

Example? People revel and awe at the sound of a K701 or HD600, and although they sound organic and realistic, IMO, they lack the hard hitting impact bass that a cello, bass drum hit, upright bass, or slap-bass guitar give you when you heard them live. Yet, people look for a "neutral" phone when looking for cans, but in a live performance, the bass carries the music and isn't "neutral" per say...

That said, I can't STAND horribly bloated bass, but at the same time, I think if you're trying to replicate the "live sound", you should be looking for a can that gives you as close to the visceral impact that alive performance gives you. I think there's a differences between live performance and studio sound, in which case, I think most people are more after the latter....

There is no way you can duplicate the true visceral experience of a live performance with headphones. The visceral impact of some music is a full body experience that twin 18" subwoofers can have a hard time delivering. Furthermore, the impact has nothing to do with frequency neutrality. The pressure from the bass soundwaves creates the impact and that doesn't mean the live bass frequencies are in anyway elevated.

To attempt to convey that kind of impact with headphones would require the bass to be far to excessive and way out of line with the rest of the frequency spectrum .... and the impact would still be far from lifelike. Getting a live sound with headphones will always be a compromise with imaging and bass impact two examples where headphones will probably always fall short. Since lifelike bass impact is beyond a headphones capability I am sure designers play to the strengths of what a headphone can do.

Moreover, I guess I disagree with your assertion that people hearing a hard hitting bassline automatically find the bass to heavy. I dont if the bass is not so pronounced that you hear obvious coloration. However, if the bass bump needed to achieve realistic impact bloats the lower mids and adds an obvious and annoying coloration like excessive chestiness to vocals, then IMO, the impact is not worth what you lose in naturalness to get it. The senn 600 with a powerful tube amp is a good example of a headphone performance that has bass weight and a good degree of impact without screwing up the transition to the mids and overall naturalness. Bass impact is only one aspect of the whole and sacrficing the whole to enhance one aspect is a step backwards.

Studio performance vs live performance? Have you ever heard the bass in a LIVE studio performance .... there is no difference .... unless you mean the end recorded sound. But again, the problem here is the equipment limitations reproducing the bass.

[Dusty Chalk]

I disagree. One can get very good, very deep, and very accurate bass...as long as one is only listening to it. One doesn't get the reinforcement that feeling those low notes with the rest of the body gets one -- which is what I think most people mean by "visceral bass" -- but what is heard is certainly completely -- if not more easily -- reproducable by headphones. You have to realize, that the physics is completely different. You don't have to energize the whole room, since you have the drivers right next to your ears, you don't even have to energize that space between the drivers and your ears, you only have to worry about the inverse square law at a very low distance relative to the frequencies' wavelengths.

I will admit, it's a rather bizarre experience to hear deep, accurate, well reproduced, and to not feel it with your body, but when it's done right, it's magical.

[oicdn]

^ I guess that's what I'm getting at. You can still get the sense of impact from a bass drum hit or bassline and it not be bloated or screw up the entire spectrum of sound. Like anything, it just has to be executed right. You don't have to necessarily "feel" it, but the note itself, can be achieved.

I'm a concert kinda guy, and a good example for me is when I goto watch Tiger Army play. The upright bass is rediculous, and even at crappy acoustic set-up venues, you still get the sense of impact that guy has when he plays. I've gotten that same feeling when listening to SE530's out of a Portaphile, or UM2's from a Hornet.

Like I said, I'm not a fan of bloat, but like Dusty said, you CAN get awesome bass and impact out of a set of cans and when it happens, it's awesome. I just think it's funny when a set of cans does do it, people call it bloated, when in reality, it's just reproducing the live sound.

I have several friends who I've watched in the studio, and there's definitly a different kind of sound coming from a live performance, studio performance and end product finished on CD. IMO, live ALWAYS sounds better....

[jp11801]

I guess No. 357 will soon be on the market again ......

Damn I bought this pair (357) new just over the summer and this may be owner number 4 or 5 at this point I sold them to a guy in North Carolina...

[postjack]

Damn I bought this pair (357) new just over the summer and this may be owner number 4 or 5 at this point I sold them to a guy in North Carolina...

who sold to me who sold to cosmo...

[Cosmopragma]

who sold to me who sold to cosmo...

who sold to SRVBlues ........

Ultrasone Edition 9 -- Around the world in 80 days ............