Do I set out looking for an R10?

[JBLoudG20]

AAHHH do do head, you come after!

[postjack]

Hello all!

I was in a similar position last year, with L3000 on my head and R10 in my mind. I found a lot to love about the R10. Incredibly natural, beautiful tone. Soundstage & imaging that almost defies the limits of a headphone. Detail & resolution that beats out anything that's not a Qualia 010. But damn, the L3000 is quite the powerhouse with hard rock/progressive rock and metal (think Jethro Tull, older Rush, Iced Earth, Iron Maiden), which I've found myself listening to more in the last year.

The L3000 is capable of a muscular, meaty sound that keeps pace perfectly with this kind of music. The R10 makes this music sound malnourished by comparison. It's also incredibly difficult to drive properly - probably the most difficult headphone I've ever owned. Don't even think about driving these with a 3x 6sn7 Singlepower - the bass will significantly distort during crescendos if you listen loud. With the 5687s in my SDS, the distortion is kept in check but at the expense of some soundstage and "midrgange magic". I know that recently popular tube complements are more optimal and Purk has found some amazing combos. With his upgraded/modified SDS (at additional expense) things should be much better, though I haven't spent much time with his new system yet. I can get impatient with gear and these cans just weren't ideal for my music & my amp. I bought them based on their performance with classical/opera (which is stunning), but as soon as I needed the money for something else, the $4K offers were starting to look really good. So, in the end I sold them after perhaps 4 months of ownership. By contrast I know I'll always own at least 1 L3000 - it's a better fit for my music preferences, system, and sonic ideals. I'm back to the L3000 as my main cans, with HD650 and Qualia 010 for backup

ALSO keep in mind there are at least two different-sounding types of R10 floating around. One version is a bit light on bass. The other version has even less bass (significantly less) but supposedly carries the advantage of a larger soundstage and slightly sweeter mids. I have heard both types, but owner the former type (more bass) and my comments mainly pertain to that. I wouldn't have liked to own the less-bass type at all. Typically most of the R10s over serial number 350 are the more-bass type, and below that they're pretty much only the less-bass type.

Welcome to head-case!

[postjack]

son of a bitch!

[JBLoudG20]

Sorry about your thin skin!

[me=JBLoudG20]jumps for joy[/me]

ok do do heads, you may proceed.

[JBLoudG20]

That's not one of your best pictures. I'd see if maybe a professional photographer can help you out.

[JBLoudG20]

You could probably lose a few pounds too.

Oh yeah, JPak, from the one time I heard the R10, I really didn't like it. I'd definitely arrange a meeting or long term borrow them before you pull the trigger.

[n_maher]

yeah, it's all that raw fish.

On the plus side you probably have control over thrice given his association with rockhoppers, that has to count for something. Come on, make thrice do something funnay.

[Nanoha]

how about i make him restart rockhopper audio?

Make him an offer he can't refuse.

[aerius]

The woman or the decapitated horse head?

[JBLoudG20]

That's one fly fedora.

[Dusty Chalk]

i dunno man, i think synergy could helped? It was like that rediculous SDS, the r10s, and a mark leveinson cd player. I was actually listening to some very bass heavy music too, i think tool

No, I usually hear it out of one of the ridiculous SDS XLR's -- Hirsch's setup -- it had bass, but it was definitely on the lean side. I'm also not sure how well it handles busy music -- I'll have to listen to it again.

[deepak]

Holy shit this thread goes from a few replies to 3 pages overnight.

[deepak]

Hey,

If money is no object, and you want them badly enough go ahead. They are the best cans I ever heard in the right setup. Looking at your sig, you may want to find a different amp to go with them, they are pretty picky cans I feel to do them justice. For instance, though markl loved them with hr2, i wouldn't really consider running them solid state at all (especially with one of those).

Best I've heard the r10, was on a singlepower tuned for it like the an SDS i heard a few years back, or the insane sds xlr I heard a balanced pair on at the national meet. Yet, I loved tom's setup with his modded cary 300 sei the most, and that might just be nostalgia from it being my first head-fi meet and all, but I did sit with it for a good hour. Never heard anything like it b4, and still probably never had an experience comparable (audio wise).

If you went with r10s tho, I'd say u can easily pass on those grados and l3000's u have, they are just the best out there I think (and u might want to clear some funds up for them anyhow). What do they go for now anyways, like 5 grand? Yuck. I think you need to be out of your mind to pay so much on an audio item. Anyhow, yea If your enabled and motivated, do it up.

Pass on the Grados maybe. I can't let go of the L3000s though. You can get an R10 for around $3500 if you look.

Strangely the system I didn't like them in was a balanced Supra XLR. Even after Mikhail rolled in the more synergistic tubes.

[Dusty Chalk]

Hmmm...I wonder what they would sound like out of a balanced beta22...?

[deepak]

Hello all!

I was in a similar position last year, with L3000 on my head and R10 in my mind. I found a lot to love about the R10. Incredibly natural, beautiful tone. Soundstage & imaging that almost defies the limits of a headphone. Detail & resolution that beats out anything that's not a Qualia 010. But damn, the L3000 is quite the powerhouse with hard rock/progressive rock and metal (think Jethro Tull, older Rush, Iced Earth, Iron Maiden), which I've found myself listening to more in the last year.

The L3000 is capable of a muscular, meaty sound that keeps pace perfectly with this kind of music. The R10 makes this music sound malnourished by comparison. It's also incredibly difficult to drive properly - probably the most difficult headphone I've ever owned. Don't even think about driving these with a 3x 6sn7 Singlepower - the bass will significantly distort during crescendos if you listen loud. With the 5687s in my SDS, the distortion is kept in check but at the expense of some soundstage and "midrgange magic". I know that recently popular tube complements are more optimal and Purk has found some amazing combos. With his upgraded/modified SDS (at additional expense) things should be much better, though I haven't spent much time with his new system yet. I can get impatient with gear and these cans just weren't ideal for my music & my amp. I bought them based on their performance with classical/opera (which is stunning), but as soon as I needed the money for something else, the $4K offers were starting to look really good. So, in the end I sold them after perhaps 4 months of ownership. By contrast I know I'll always own at least 1 L3000 - it's a better fit for my music preferences, system, and sonic ideals. I'm back to the L3000 as my main cans, with HD650 and Qualia 010 for backup

ALSO keep in mind there are at least two different-sounding types of R10 floating around. One version is a bit light on bass. The other version has even less bass (significantly less) but supposedly carries the advantage of a larger soundstage and slightly sweeter mids. I have heard both types, but owner the former type (more bass) and my comments mainly pertain to that. I wouldn't have liked to own the less-bass type at all. Typically most of the R10s over serial number 350 are the more-bass type, and below that they're pretty much only the less-bass type.

mulveling welcome to headcase, appreciate the feedback

[tkam]

Do you know what serial number they were? Do you know if they were as bright as the CD3000 (I've grown to really dislike)? Any comparison to the Qualia you're borrowing? I'm not considering the Qualia, the midrange was a bit too sterile/recessed.

I believe they are part of the supposed "bass-light" ones but I don't remember for sure. I actually think they were as bright as the CD3000, though my biggest problem with the R10's treble was sibilance. I actually like the Qualia better so far, they have a really nice soundstage its huge but remains remarkably cohesive and they have really precise imaging. The midrange is a bit sterile though, and while they have nice tight bass it's nowhere near as deep or impactful as the L3000s is.

[postjack]

Wow, time limits for edits, eh? Not a bad idea really

Also wanted to add:

I'd already sold the R10 when I got my turntable; I admit that I kind of wish I'd heard them together. I've since become a full-blown vinyl junkie and I believe vinyl excels in spacial cues, soundtstage, and tone, all of which play into the R10's strengths. Vinyl has really opened up the HD650, and I wonder if it would do similar for the R10.

I wanted to x2 the whole vinyl and Senns thing, you are not the only one who has noticed that vinyl really livens up the HD650. aerius made a similar pronouncement, or at least he said vinyl made Senns not suck. Vinyl makes all my cans better, but it is most noticeable with the HD650. And I've got a super-budget analog rig.

[purk]

Mike,

Hello all!

I was in a similar position last year, with L3000 on my head and R10 in my mind. I found a lot to love about the R10. Incredibly natural, beautiful tone. Soundstage & imaging that almost defies the limits of a headphone. Detail & resolution that beats out anything that's not a Qualia 010. But damn, the L3000 is quite the powerhouse with hard rock/progressive rock and metal (think Jethro Tull, older Rush, Iced Earth, Iron Maiden), which I've found myself listening to more in the last year.

The L3000 is capable of a muscular, meaty sound that keeps pace perfectly with this kind of music. The R10 makes this music sound malnourished by comparison. It's also incredibly difficult to drive properly - probably the most difficult headphone I've ever owned. Don't even think about driving these with a 3x 6sn7 Singlepower - the bass will significantly distort during crescendos if you listen loud. With the 5687s in my SDS, the distortion is kept in check but at the expense of some soundstage and "midrgange magic". I know that recently popular tube complements are more optimal and Purk has found some amazing combos. With his upgraded/modified SDS (at additional expense) things should be much better, though I haven't spent much time with his new system yet. I can get impatient with gear and these cans just weren't ideal for my music & my amp. I bought them based on their performance with classical/opera (which is stunning), but as soon as I needed the money for something else, the $4K offers were starting to look really good. So, in the end I sold them after perhaps 4 months of ownership. By contrast I know I'll always own at least 1 L3000 - it's a better fit for my music preferences, system, and sonic ideals. I'm back to the L3000 as my main cans, with HD650 and Qualia 010 for backup

ALSO keep in mind there are at least two different-sounding types of R10 floating around. One version is a bit light on bass. The other version has even less bass (significantly less) but supposedly carries the advantage of a larger soundstage and slightly sweeter mids. I have heard both types, but owner the former type (more bass) and my comments mainly pertain to that. I wouldn't have liked to own the less-bass type at all. Typically most of the R10s over serial number 350 are the more-bass type, and below that they're pretty much only the less-bass type.

You need to come by and listen to my R10s again. With a tube rectified PS upgrade to my R. Kern/Modwright Moded Sony SCD-777ES my R10s have reached the new height. My R10s has all the bass I couldn't ever want with a midrange, air, soundstage, details, and seperation of instrument to match. Since my 777ES arrived three days ago I've stopped to listen to my L3000. I'm driving my R10 with a maxed out SDS with Sly. 6BL7GTs as output and Tungsol 2c51 or GE 12AY7 as drivers with bias and voltage setting at high position.

tkam,

I believe when you had Alex's R10 you was driving them with a PPX3 Slam, which I don't can provide enough current to drive them. Even my stock SDS had to be retuned and upgraded with more power to drive the R10s. When I had the R10 initially I was having a mix feeling but after the amp upgraded I was completely satisfied. You should really give them a try with your new SP dragon.

[purk]

I believe they are part of the supposed "bass-light" ones but I don't remember for sure. I actually think they were as bright as the CD3000, though my biggest problem with the R10's treble was sibilance. I actually like the Qualia better so far, they have a really nice soundstage its huge but remains remarkably cohesive and they have really precise imaging. The midrange is a bit sterile though, and while they have nice tight bass it's nowhere near as deep or impactful as the L3000s is.

Alex's pair is the one with more bass. The SN is around 1200. I believe your PPX3 slam was not doing them justice; hence the light bass and brightness. Since I had my first pair of R10s, I have spent around 1200 dollars to upgrade/retune my SDS, $300 in tubes and adapters, and another $700 to improve the sound of my CD player. Am I glad I spent 2.2K to make them better...absolutely. On a side note, the R10 probably won't match the L3000, and PS-1's bass impact, but my R10 comes real close.

[deepak]

Were you able to hear them with an Extreme? The SDS is way more than I'd spend on a headphone amp.

[purk]

his custom PPX3 Slam put out a lot more current than stock units

Dude....I had the SDS Slam when I had the R10s initially and I was not 100% satisfied with my system; hence the upgrade. You have understand that although the PPX3 does have more current and can tighthen the bass and allow better imagingm, but it can make your amp sound a little lean and bright. I could see you guys dislike the R10s when they are not properly amped, but once they do...they are tough to beat. I have both versions of R10 with me right now and I love both of them. Each of them are different but unmistakably the best headphone I've heard to date.

[purk]

Were you able to hear them with an Extreme? The SDS is way more than I'd spend on a headphone amp.

I've heard the R10 out of Boomana's Extreme Platinum and they sound great. Her pair is a more bassy pair. I believe Extreme Platimum has more bass and wider soundstage than the SDS stock but lack the tonality and refinement of the SDS.

[purk]

i'm very interested in hearing an Extreme. the tonality and refinement of 6SN7/6BX7 combo is, in my opinion, hard to beat, and i really don't need any more power with the cans i use.

Yes, the Extreme is really an excellent amp, especially Vicky's Extreme Platinum. That amp was a bass monster.

[deepak]

Purk I know you were pursuing Yahoo Japan for your R10, do you still feel this is the best way?

I've been checking every now and then and a couple of weeks ago a 137 SN sold for 410000 yen. Kinda on the lower side of things, I suspect a 700+ SN will go for more?

Reks: I exchanged a few PMs with nikongod he said the tonality of his Extreme Plat was exceptional, I remember he called it a "texture monster". I believe he still preferred his highly upgraded SHA-1 to it, just for the HP-2.

[deepak]

if you are serious about getting a pair of R-10s, jpak, i would suggest auditioning the Cary 300SEI. it's a great combo.

Yup I've heard it is. But before all that I've decided I want to hear two different R10s with my music, preferably with my source, before I even think of buying them.