Do I set out looking for an R10?

[deepak]

This is a shaky quest. I received lots of great feedback in my L3000 thread and most of it was very good advice and I'm thrilled with my purchase.

Feedback from those that own/have owned/heard the R10 would be appreciated. I would especially like detailed or lengthy descriptions. Thanks.

(As for my own thoughts on the R10 my two encounters with them were polar opposites)

[postjack]

and I thought I had gas.

[tkam]

I borrowed a pair of R10 for a couple months and was totally unimpressed by them. Lacking bass response (especially compared to the L3000) and a treble that can be absolutely shrill and brutal. The midrange is really nice as is the soundstage, though I still think the soundstage has a real artificial sound to it. I think if you'd like them or not depends a ton on what your looking for out of headphones.

[deepak]

and I thought I had gas.

I wouldn't get one until March/April 2008 which point I'll be settled in nicely with my job.

I borrowed a pair of R10 for a couple months and was totally unimpressed by them. Lacking bass response (especially compared to the L3000) and a treble that can be absolutely shrill and brutal. The midrange is really nice as is the soundstage, though I still think the soundstage has a real artificial sound to it. I think if you'd like them or not depends a ton on what your looking for out of headphones.

Do you know what serial number they were? Do you know if they were as bright as the CD3000 (I've grown to really dislike)? Any comparison to the Qualia you're borrowing? I'm not considering the Qualia, the midrange was a bit too sterile/recessed.

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Extremely coloured sound, lacking in bottom end (rolled off), interesting sound stage that works great for audiophile test disc recordings (extremely 3d), but terrible for generic rock cd's. Guitars also lacked the presence that say a Grado headphone has. Detail in the mids and highs was great and the imaging was very percise. Overall I hated the pair I listened to and rock music was extremely underwhelming on them. But they are still way better then cd3000's.

Biggie.

[humanflyz]

That was my brief experience with the R10s: really nice on "audiophile" recordings, but sound like absolute shit on anything regular, that is to say, 99% of recorded music today.

[deepak]

Definitely leaning more towards hearing them again in a quiet environment, which was my hunch.

[Dusty Chalk]

I've heard several of Hirsch's pairs on several occasions. Multiple serial numbers.

I pretty much could not get them off my head fast enough. I really dislike them. They may be fine for detail freaks, but for a rocker like me, they suck. Pretty much. Out and out suck. I like my HP-2's for that better.

EDIT: okay, that's not true, I do remember once or twice liking them long enough to listen to them for a whole song or more -- 5 minutes or so. And the bass isn't gone, it's just...well, I would compare them to my Spendor S3/5's -- the bass extends, there's just a gradual roll-off. Which, now that I think about it, I loved those speakers. I don't know, maybe I ought to give them another chance...

[Salt Peanuts]

jpak - completely off topic, but do you still have your CD3000's? If so, can you bring them to the Boston meet, assuming you can make it? Keep wanting to try them out but keep missing chances on them.

[deepak]

jpak - completely off topic, but do you still have your CD3000's? If so, can you bring them to the Boston meet, assuming you can make it? Keep wanting to try them out but keep missing chances on them.

Absolutely if I can make it I'll bring them.

I can give you guys my answer closer to the start of August.

[Salt Peanuts]

Absolutely if I can make it I'll bring them.

I can give you guys my answer closer to the start of August.

Great, I hope you can make the meet.

[granodemostasa]

It's a very abnormal headphone.... i would call it far from neutral. It is extraordinarily musical however, with a funky midrange, sparky treble and well articulated bass. It's sound stage was impressive. Sorry i can't say more

[recstar24]

I would highly suggest listening to a R10 before splunking down the cash. Its either hit or miss for listeners. Some really love the sound, some abhor it. If your okay with taking a shot and reselling, you shouldnt lose much, if any. The sony sound is a bit on the brighter side. Not as bad as the CD3000's or SA5000's, as the midrange can be quite warm and enticing. The soundstage, while huge, is somewhat artificial, as you will find every song will have that huge cavernous feeling to it. If your okay with leaner bass then so be it.

[Iron_Dreamer]

The R10 is definitely pretty picky about upstream gear. I've never heard the supposedly more bassy newer versions. The ones I've heard strike me as only being fitting for orchestral or acoustic music due to the lack of bass. I though the bass extensions was actually quite good, as I could pick up some very low frequencies, there just wasn't enough bass below say, 100Hz. It is definitely the soundstage king of closed headphones, and very detailed. All that said, for the kind of music I found the R10 to excel at, I'd prefer an OmegaII+KGSS system, for the larger soundstage and "airy" sound, without lacking in bass. And even including the amp, it'd still be a lot cheaper than any R10 you could find these days.

I'm not sure the R10 is the "best" in any regard of headphone performance. It does have a particular charm, and I think those who appreciate that charm would tend to be sucked into these headphones. And those who hate bass-light systems wouldn't be able to see past it. If you could get one for <$2000 as was possible years ago, it would make more sense, but at the current prices, I think one would have to be quite sure that they really love them before taking the plunge. Given the sample variation, that might be an even more difficult task than usual.

[philodox]

It's funny, because at the Ontario meet everyone who loved the R10's couldn't stop talking about how great they are with rock... this was off Ray's Meridian and either of his balanced amps.

I thought they sounded pretty good out of my amp, but I wasn't blown away and still prefer my K340s. I only listened for 10min or so though...

[mjg]

This is a shaky quest. I received lots of great feedback in my L3000 thread and most of it was very good advice and I'm thrilled with my purchase.

Feedback from those that own/have owned/heard the R10 would be appreciated. I would especially like detailed or lengthy descriptions. Thanks.

(As for my own thoughts on the R10 my two encounters with them were polar opposites)

Hey,

If money is no object, and you want them badly enough go ahead. They are the best cans I ever heard in the right setup. Looking at your sig, you may want to find a different amp to go with them, they are pretty picky cans I feel to do them justice. For instance, though markl loved them with hr2, i wouldn't really consider running them solid state at all (especially with one of those).

Best I've heard the r10, was on a singlepower tuned for it like the an SDS i heard a few years back, or the insane sds xlr I heard a balanced pair on at the national meet. Yet, I loved tom's setup with his modded cary 300 sei the most, and that might just be nostalgia from it being my first head-fi meet and all, but I did sit with it for a good hour. Never heard anything like it b4, and still probably never had an experience comparable (audio wise).

If you went with r10s tho, I'd say u can easily pass on those grados and l3000's u have, they are just the best out there I think (and u might want to clear some funds up for them anyhow). What do they go for now anyways, like 5 grand? Yuck. I think you need to be out of your mind to pay so much on an audio item. Anyhow, yea If your enabled and motivated, do it up.

[aerius]

I heard a pair a couple months ago and I have to agree with Biggie & Iron Dreamer, the R10 is pretty much made for acoustic & orchestral music and falls apart on anything with significant bass or "heaviness". 90% of my music is missing weight & impact with the R10, I've heard electrostatics with more bass & punch down low for fuck's sake, that's just ridiculous & unacceptable to me. Unless your music collection resembles the Stereophile "Records to Die For" list, I can't really think of a reason to buy them.

[mjg]

i dunno man, i heard them on mikhails SDS with the rediculous huge caps. Maybe it was the version with the better bass. It was the most articulate, cleanest, most dynamic bass I ever heard on a can. Maybe i'm just nuts. Actually I am, but not the point.

Compared to l3000, which were on hand actually (though perhaps not broken in yet), they were far superior in the bass department on that amp.

[tkam]

Either those L3000s were broken or those R10 are the one super magical pair that actually sounds good.

[mjg]

i dunno man, i think synergy could helped? It was like that rediculous SDS, the r10s, and a mark leveinson cd player. I was actually listening to some very bass heavy music too, i think tool

[mulveling]

This is a shaky quest. I received lots of great feedback in my L3000 thread and most of it was very good advice and I'm thrilled with my purchase.

Feedback from those that own/have owned/heard the R10 would be appreciated. I would especially like detailed or lengthy descriptions. Thanks.

(As for my own thoughts on the R10 my two encounters with them were polar opposites)

Hello all!

I was in a similar position last year, with L3000 on my head and R10 in my mind. I found a lot to love about the R10. Incredibly natural, beautiful tone. Soundstage & imaging that almost defies the limits of a headphone. Detail & resolution that beats out anything that's not a Qualia 010. But damn, the L3000 is quite the powerhouse with hard rock/progressive rock and metal (think Jethro Tull, older Rush, Iced Earth, Iron Maiden), which I've found myself listening to more in the last year.

The L3000 is capable of a muscular, meaty sound that keeps pace perfectly with this kind of music. The R10 makes this music sound malnourished by comparison. It's also incredibly difficult to drive properly - probably the most difficult headphone I've ever owned. Don't even think about driving these with a 3x 6sn7 Singlepower - the bass will significantly distort during crescendos if you listen loud. With the 5687s in my SDS, the distortion is kept in check but at the expense of some soundstage and "midrgange magic". I know that recently popular tube complements are more optimal and Purk has found some amazing combos. With his upgraded/modified SDS (at additional expense) things should be much better, though I haven't spent much time with his new system yet. I can get impatient with gear and these cans just weren't ideal for my music & my amp. I bought them based on their performance with classical/opera (which is stunning), but as soon as I needed the money for something else, the $4K offers were starting to look really good. So, in the end I sold them after perhaps 4 months of ownership. By contrast I know I'll always own at least 1 L3000 - it's a better fit for my music preferences, system, and sonic ideals. I'm back to the L3000 as my main cans, with HD650 and Qualia 010 for backup

ALSO keep in mind there are at least two different-sounding types of R10 floating around. One version is a bit light on bass. The other version has even less bass (significantly less) but supposedly carries the advantage of a larger soundstage and slightly sweeter mids. I have heard both types, but owner the former type (more bass) and my comments mainly pertain to that. I wouldn't have liked to own the less-bass type at all. Typically most of the R10s over serial number 350 are the more-bass type, and below that they're pretty much only the less-bass type.

[mulveling]

Wow, time limits for edits, eh? Not a bad idea really

Also wanted to add:

I'd already sold the R10 when I got my turntable; I admit that I kind of wish I'd heard them together. I've since become a full-blown vinyl junkie and I believe vinyl excels in spacial cues, soundtstage, and tone, all of which play into the R10's strengths. Vinyl has really opened up the HD650, and I wonder if it would do similar for the R10.

[JBLoudG20]

[me=JBLoudG20]waits for postjack's welcome message so I can follow with mine.[/me]

[Nanoha]

Welcome to Head-Case Mike!

Oh wait, did I step out of order?

[JBLoudG20]

Yes. Jack. then Me. then the rest of the do do heads.