Salt Peanuts Posted February 8, 2015 Report Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) Fuck, I just noticed he has a stainless steel Hamilton Railway Special. I don't need a pocketwatch, I don't need a pocketwatch. Edited February 8, 2015 by Salt Peanuts
HeadphoneAddict Posted February 8, 2015 Report Posted February 8, 2015 Okay, so I'm confused by this new watch, and I need to get an accurate age on the Omega Ti SMP chronograph that just arrived. Here's the deal. The dial and red hour markers, dial lume, and the little red hands on the sub-dials look fairly new. The bezel does not look nearly as dinged up to the naked eye, but it's fairly beat up when using a 10x lupe. The hour, minute and second hands look slightly older, but they all glow for at least a couple of hours when hit with a bright flash light (we're testing it tonight vs my son's 11-12 year old Seamaster Pro Mid-size). However, the bezel dot seems to be DEAD, and will only glow for about 5-10 seconds after hit with a bright light or blacklight, making me think tritium, although the dial says "Swiss Made" without the "T Swiss T" or "T < 25" at 6 o'clock position. The dial and hands could have been replaced. The seller's website clearly says, "Pre-Owned Watch; Purchased circa 2011 from authorized Omega Watches dealer. We are unable to confirm exact date of purchase as original owner misplaced Warranty Card / Certificate." So, I checked the serial number, and it's 50,008,1xx and all 5 charts I found say this watch is from 1986! The dial and hands could have been replaced in 2011 when it was "bought from an AD", and this could be an older watch than was represented by watchuwant.com if it was bought as a "used watch" from the AD. I thought I had a service history, being that if it was bought new in 2011 then I was due for a service in 1-2 years, and I could replace the dinged up bezel now and service it later. Now I have no idea if I need to get it serviced too. Also, the clasp has also been highly over-brushed, so the Omega Seamaster Pro lettering is very faint, but the rest of the watch seems fine other than some dings in the bezel that got me a $545 discount to replace it. Theoretically, all I need to do to bring this watch up to my standards is to replace the bezel ($520) and get it serviced my my local guy ($250). Or, I could spend $700 to send it to Omega for a full COA first. But then I might find out they might not be able to replace just the bezel dot to return full functionality, and they'll want another $500 in parts. The bezel insert is not replaceable, and the whole bezel must be replaced. But what about the bezel dot? So the Questions are:1) How old is the watch? I didn't think they made these in 1986.2) can the bezel dot alone be replaced on a Ti chronograph, or is it like the insert and an all or nothing proposition? If the dot can be replaced, I may opt to send it to Omega for a full service and a new dot.3) Should I just ask the seller to take it back and refund my $2500, since the age was misrepresented? This is one of my grail watches, my chuck Maddox Homage watch in fact, and my son's loves everything except the dead bezel dot - it's light, handsome, bigger than his 36mm SMP, and a classic.
HeadphoneAddict Posted February 8, 2015 Report Posted February 8, 2015 Benjamin says that If I give him my 6 month old Seamaster Pro black ceramic bezel non-chronograph for his graduation, then I can return this watch and not have to spend $500 on a bezel or $300 on a service with my local guy. Also, for close to this price I could buy him a used Blue bezel/dial SMP ceramic that he really wants. But he'd take this one in a heart beat if the bezel dot glows and it's serviced. I had to part with a seiko, a hamilton, 3 citizen, and one orient to help pay for this one. I'd almost rather keep the money in the bank and give up one of my safe queens for him.
Torpedo Posted February 8, 2015 Report Posted February 8, 2015 Was the Ti Speedmaster even being made in 1986? I hadn't said. As Jacob says, too many issues, get a refund. It could even be a good fake.
HeadphoneAddict Posted February 8, 2015 Report Posted February 8, 2015 Was the Ti Speedmaster even being made in 1986? I hadn't said. As Jacob says, too many issues, get a refund. It could even be a good fake. That's where part of my confusion comes from, because I thought these came out around 1993. The Omega serial number charts sometimes had watches that didn't fit (like the Speedmasters had an entirely different line of serial numbers per year than other models), and it's possible this is a 1993 or newer. From inspection with a 10x loupe, and with my experience under the loupe with many real ones, fakes and Ti watches, this is not a fake. And the bracelet, not counting the over-brushed clasp is in amazing condition for it's age. I'd think only Omega themselves could get it this right. RE: serial number discrepancies from the factory - I have a Speedmaster Moonwatch with a movement serial number from 1979 and a caseback from 1974 and I had to buy an abstract from Omega Archives to find out when the watch was actually made. Omega says that based on my serial number it was made in October 1976. That would fit with them pulling older case-backs from the parts bin, because they mixed in the new 1976 backs with the older 1974 ones when supplies got low (they made the backs dated every other year). It's just that nobody had reported to the "chart makers" that there was a real 1976 movement found with a serial number in the 1979 range (I should do that). So, maybe it's possible that somehow a 50 million series SN made it onto this watch case in the early 90's. But yeah, there's no way it was new in 2011. I know that in 2009 Omega was up to 85 million with my Planet Ocean, and my son's SMP is in the 80 million range and someone told me it was low to mid 2000's (the age charts stop at 56 million in 1998). Regardless, the dial and hands are definitely Luminova or Superluminova, and look to have been replaced recently, based on the vivid red colors and lume (no orange hands or faded markers). At 12 midnight last night I shined a 160 lumen flashlight on three watched for 10 seconds (the new Ti, our early 2000's Seamaster Pro mid, and my new automatic Victorinox Dive Master 500). ALL 3 watches were readable in a dark room at both 3AM and 6AM this morning, The Victorinox hands and bezel were the brightest, but it's hour markers were dimmer than either of the Omega's hour markers. The more recent SMP's hour markers and hands were very slightly brighter than the Ti Chrono at the end of the test. However, the more recent SMP bezel dot's glow had faded a bit by 3AM and was gone by 6AM (while the Ti bezel dot doesn't glow > 5-10 seconds). It's clear the Ti bezel is much older than the dial and hands, and also older than the the early to mid 2000's SMP. This could be fixed entirely with a new bezel dot (or bezel) for $520 and a local service ($250). It just that if it's an early 1990's Ti SMP chrono then it's worth $2100-2300 "as is", and I paid $2500 credit card shipped overnight + 1% fees (based on my info that it was a 2011 watch with a dinged up bezel that they were crediting to me in the discount). If I keep it then I think the seller also owes me a service, since a 2011 could have waited 1-3 years and this might need one now. It might be dry as a bone.
HeadphoneAddict Posted February 9, 2015 Report Posted February 9, 2015 The Ti SMP chronograph runs +4.9 a day when I'm asleep for 10 hours, and runs +17.5 seconds a day when I'm active for 10 hours. Methinks it needs a service. I've arranged for a phone call from the seller in the morning.
HeadphoneAddict Posted February 10, 2015 Report Posted February 10, 2015 I got a pre-paid (free) Fed-Ex return shipping label from the seller, to send this back tomorrow for a full refund. It's a great looking and comfortable watch - but with it needing a full service and new bezel, and being almost 15-20 years older than advertised, and having the signed clasp almost destroyed by over-brushing, my watch maker said I could do better. If they would have given me a $500 refund then my watchmaker said it might be worth keeping, but it still needed a $300 service.
falkon Posted February 10, 2015 Report Posted February 10, 2015 Jacob - thanks for posting a link to your retailer, looks like a very reputable place. I know nothing about watches but I wouldn't mind getting something a bit dressy with a very simple face. No gold, only silver or black. This looks pretty damn amazing to me - http://www.piecesoftime.net/salesww_pages/2086seamaster.html Anything else people might suggest? Very simple and no gold. I really like the Nomos Tangente. If your budget is tighter you can go with a Stowa Antea.
naamanf Posted February 11, 2015 Report Posted February 11, 2015 Someone wants to trade me this. Any idea on what it might be worth and what questions I should ask about it?
HeadphoneAddict Posted February 11, 2015 Report Posted February 11, 2015 Someone wants to trade me this. Any idea on what it might be worth and what questions I should ask about it? I'd ask when it was last serviced, and be concerned about the week-day wheel being slightly out of alignment. I'd want to see the actual movement and serial number to confirm it's not a fake. I wonder if it's a service dial because it looks old enough to have tritium but I don't know if the dashes on either side of Swiss Made means that it's radium or tritium, but the watch is not old enough to have radium. The dial does look aged it may be original to the watch, and I don't see any evidence that the dial has been repainted. He'd want to confirm that the crown is original or it's the correct part if it's been replaced, because frequently in watches at that age people will put any crown on it that fits. Do you have a photo that shows whether it has an original omega dial, which would have the omega symbol etched in the very center of the Crystal?
naamanf Posted February 11, 2015 Report Posted February 11, 2015 Hmmm didn't realize this watch stuff was so complicated. I know it was services last year. I'll have to ask about the other stuff. Any idea on value if they are original?
HeadphoneAddict Posted February 11, 2015 Report Posted February 11, 2015 Hmmm didn't realize this watch stuff was so complicated. I know it was services last year. I'll have to ask about the other stuff. Any idea on value if they are original? It depends on whether it's gold, and the year, and the condition. Let's assume it's a late 60’s - 1970's gold filled in excellent original condition with automatic movement, I would maybe pay between $750 and $1100. I'll go check eBay, and see if I can find something equivalent that sold recently. I've just never tried to do that on an iPad, and I'm in a surgical waiting room right now while my daughter gets her pins & rods removed from her left leg PS: I would still test the date wheel by rotating it through past 12 midnight, because it could be misaligned simply because it's 10:20 PM on the dial and getting ready to change. A Serial number on the movement will help us easily place a date on the watch and I have the charts and tables up through 1998. If the clasp on the leather strap is Omega signed that would add value, as well as the strap itself being genuine Omega. The problem is there are a lot of fake straps and clasps out there.
HeadphoneAddict Posted February 11, 2015 Report Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Not exactly the same, but similar - asking $799 obo http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mens-Vintage-Swiss-Omega-Seamaster-Gold-plated-Day-Date-Automatic-7046-/121557877553?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4d6a0331 This one they have a reprinted dial Edited February 11, 2015 by HeadphoneAddict
HeadphoneAddict Posted February 11, 2015 Report Posted February 11, 2015 Here is one on the opposite end of the spectrum, asking $1495 or best offer. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mens-Vintage-OMEGA-Seamaster-Automatic-Gold-Plated-Day-Date-Watch-Leather-Strap-/161574890247?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item259e9d2b07
naamanf Posted February 11, 2015 Report Posted February 11, 2015 I think I might just say f'it and find one I actually like and buy myself a birthday gift. I guess the best thing to do is visit a Omega dealer and find what size I like and then work a good deal on ebay?
HeadphoneAddict Posted February 11, 2015 Report Posted February 11, 2015 I think I might just say f'it and find one I actually like and buy myself a birthday gift. I guess the best thing to do is visit a Omega dealer and find what size I like and then work a good deal on ebay? Most sellers on eBay are way overpriced, and I had to make an offer two different times and negotiate by phone when I found what I wanted on eBay. Sometimes the private sellers on Omegaforums.net or Rolexforums.net or at forums.watchuseek.com are the most reliable and fair.
HeadphoneAddict Posted February 13, 2015 Report Posted February 13, 2015 I think the best way to deal with eBay sellers who have a best offer option is to take a number that you think is an absolute bottom of the barrel lowball and then subtract an additional 10%. Start with that. I always end up adding about 25-40% back to that amount... My 1962 Gold capped Semaster DeVille Automatic with Date and genuine lether strap was listed at $1495 and I started at about $850. By email negotiations they were staying above $1300. I called the seller on the phone and had a nice chat, and we got it down to $1150 shipped via 2-day. My watchmaker tested it and it was in great original condition, but worth about $1000. My 1962 Stainless Omega Seamaster (no date manual wind) was listed at $299 with no service, and my watch maker looked at the posting and said buy it now. He serviced it for $95 and it works great and is worth over $500 now (worth more if the aged tritium lume hadn't turned to dust and fallen out of the hands).
HeadphoneAddict Posted February 13, 2015 Report Posted February 13, 2015 Update on the Ti Seamaster Pro Chrono (circa 1993 - 2002) I did find another one of these watches and bought it last night, which should be here Friday (tomorrow). It has a serial number in the 80 million range and so instead of being one of the first of these to be made like the one I sent back, it was one of the latest ones (newest) to come off the production line. While the previous one's serial number dated it to 1986, this one dates it to 2006, both outside of the manufacturing window. It doesn't need a new bezel, clasp or service like the first one, and still has an Omega warranty until December 2015, due to a service in Dec 2013. I saw photos of the watch taken in the dark, and the original dial and bezel glow as brightly as the new hands from the service. The new crown and pushers perfectly match the color of the original case, and I get all the original parts with the watch. There's not a deep mark on it anywhere, and the seller is a highly reputable member of one of the Omega forums. Fixing up the one I returned would have put me $3,300 out of pocket before I even started to replace the over-buffed down clasp, so it turned out well and I saved possibly $1000 vs bringing the other watch up to this level.
HeadphoneAddict Posted February 13, 2015 Report Posted February 13, 2015 Maybe I've just gotten lucky, but I've also bought many fewer watches than you have. Yeah, but I did sell off a ton of my lesser watches to get this last big one (Ti SMP chrono). So, other than upgrading my 1993 Explorer II to a model 16570 with working luminous, I am done for a while. Well, I recently thought I was going to continue to sell everything else except for my Omega's and Rolex's and the one Hamilton, and keep upgrading. But right now I still have more non-Omega/Rolex watches than I have of those three brands, and I'm attached to more than half of them.
HeadphoneAddict Posted February 14, 2015 Report Posted February 14, 2015 The second Titanium Seamaster Pro chronograph arrived today, and it's just right - I couldn't be happier with it. This seller spent $1,110 in Dec 2013 to have Omega fix it up and restore it, as it was in great need of repairs, and now it's like having a new watch. The dial is still original but looks great, and I have the remaining original parts to go with it. However, I can't see even a mad collector wanting to put the old hands, pushers, and crown back on. When exposed to the sunlight and then moved into the shadows, the luminous material on everything glows like it's electrified for a few minutes. The original dial's red triangular hour markers are only slightly faded to orange, but it looks good. Excuse the fingerprints in the photo. 1
HeadphoneAddict Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 I can't wait to see pix of your new old Speedmaster. I came close to getting that one, but then I'd have to figure out what to do with my 1976 Speedy. Not sure I need two vintage Speedy's, but a pre-moon would be nice.
nikongod Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 If I'm in NYC any time soon, I'm definitely going to try to attend this! I will be in NYC many times soon, I'm definitely going to attend this!
crappyjones123 Posted February 18, 2015 Report Posted February 18, 2015 Waaaaaaay cool. Not into watches as much as you guys are but I would love to do something like that. Have fun ari
nikongod Posted February 18, 2015 Report Posted February 18, 2015 I emailed the people with the watchmaking class to reserve a spot at the May 18 class, and heard back that they are pretty much fuller than full - BUT they are switching to weekly classes! It looks like they are changing from a "reserve a specific time" to simply "first in E-line first in available class", but hopefully I get in soon regardless. I wonder if they let you take pictures?
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