W5000 - Soon to be overshadowed by jpak's L3000

[n_maher]

It's like breasts, some people like large breasts while others like smaller breasts.

I choose not to discriminate against either type and embrace all of them equally.

[Elephas]

I would be interested in more opinions about the W5000 vs. L3000. It seems that almost everyone thinks the L3000 is better.

I prefer the W5000 over the L3000. It has better details, imaging and air, and has a larger soundstage. True, the W5000 has less body and weight, and both bass quality and quantity are inferior to the L3000's. The L3000 has always seemed to me a bit too closed-in and claustrophobic. I'm hoping a balanced recable and a balanced amp will improve the L3000. The W5000 w/Enigma Audio Oracle is very good already with its matching AT-HA5000 amp.

[humanflyz]

I would be interested in more opinions about the W5000 vs. L3000. It seems that almost everyone thinks the L3000 is better.

I prefer the W5000 over the L3000. It has better details, imaging and air, and has a larger soundstage. True, the W5000 has less body and weight, and both bass quality and quantity are inferior to the L3000's. The L3000 has always seemed to me a bit too closed-in and claustrophobic. I'm hoping a balanced recable and a balanced amp will improve the L3000. The W5000 w/Enigma Audio Oracle is very good already with its matching AT-HA5000 amp.

Having owned the W5000s once and now own the L3000s, I can only agree that the W5000s have more air and soundstage. But detail-wise, I feel they are the same, and sometimes I think the L3000s reveal more detail, but don't present them in a conscious manner. Imaging-wise the L3000s are a bit better as well. But if you are coming from the R10s, I can see how you might perceive the L3000s as too closed-in.

[Iron_Dreamer]

The W5000 certainly has an airier sound and larger soundstage than the L3000. I actually found the L3000 more detailed, and quite readily so, as not long after acquiring them I was noticing new sounds in familiar recordings, after owning the W5000 for over a year. I would generally call imaging a draw. They both have a very similar sort of imaging to me, and it it quite clear and tight.

Really the only "problem" with the L3000 is that it doesn't have a large, airy soundstage (compared to what some of the other top headphones can do). Well nor does the PS-1, Edition 9, or any of the other top bass headphones. In my mind it's some sort of a fundamental trade off, you can have airy or punchy, but not both. Hence the need of one headphone for bass-driven music and one for acoustic music.

[hungrych]

You need a real amp!

[Iron_Dreamer]

You need a real amp!

You talkin' to me?

I know I need a real amp. We're working on it. But even with a good amp, the L3000 simply cannot equal the likes of the Omega II, K1000, HE90, 010, etc. in terms of air and soundstage, at least based on what I've heard from them all.

[tkam]

Air and soundstage are what speakers are for

[Iron_Dreamer]

Indeed! Hence the reason I generally find the K1000 superfluous.

[Nanoha]

Indeed! Hence the reason I generally find the K1000 superfluous.

I also share that opinion.

[humanflyz]

Indeed! Hence the reason I generally find the K1000 superfluous.

I don't think it's superfluous because it does fill a niche, albeit a very tiny one: people who don't like most headphones' soundstaging and imaging abilities but who can't do speakers due to living arrangements.

[tkam]

Also they're great for people w/ speakers that do late night listening when speaker listening isn't very practical.

[Iron_Dreamer]

Yeah, I certainly acknowledge that niche which is why I said "generally" superfluous

[Elephas]

The W5000 certainly has an airier sound and larger soundstage than the L3000. I actually found the L3000 more detailed, and quite readily so, as not long after acquiring them I was noticing new sounds in familiar recordings, after owning the W5000 for over a year. I would generally call imaging a draw. They both have a very similar sort of imaging to me, and it it quite clear and tight.

Really the only "problem" with the L3000 is that it doesn't have a large, airy soundstage (compared to what some of the other top headphones can do). Well nor does the PS-1, Edition 9, or any of the other top bass headphones. In my mind it's some sort of a fundamental trade off, you can have airy or punchy, but not both. Hence the need of one headphone for bass-driven music and one for acoustic music.

I agree about the fundamental trade-off. The Stax O2 seems pretty close to being both airy and punchy. I would choose it as a better all-rounder over the R10 or L3000.

You're probably one of the few people I might trust over my own ears. Hmm, L3000 more detailed than W5000? Maybe listening volume is a factor here. I usually listen at a low volume, which often seems "just right" with the W5000. The L3000, and also the HD600 and HD650, seem to sound better at a higher volume than my normal setting and I find myself turning up the volume.

I actually haven't listened to the L3000 much since buying it, so it's possible I'm not familiar enough with its sound. Aaaagh, maybe it hasn't been fully burned-in.

[hungrych]

What amps have you used with the L3000?

[deepak]

I agree about the fundamental trade-off. The Stax O2 seems pretty close to being both airy and punchy. I would choose it as a better all-rounder over the R10 or L3000.

You're probably one of the few people I might trust over my own ears. Hmm, L3000 more detailed than W5000? Maybe listening volume is a factor here. I usually listen at a low volume, which often seems "just right" with the W5000. The L3000, and also the HD600 and HD650, seem to sound better at a higher volume than my normal setting and I find myself turning up the volume.

I actually haven't listened to the L3000 much since buying it, so it's possible I'm not familiar enough with its sound. Aaaagh, maybe it hasn't been fully burned-in.

There might be an impedance mismatch with the Raptor, I couldn't stand it with a pair of RS-1 I heard.

FWIW the L3000 is more detailed than the HP-2, which I spent many hours going back and forth with.

[Elephas]

What amps have you used with the L3000?

I use the AT-HA5000 and Raptor. I don't use the L3000 with the Lehmann Black Cube Linear or G&W AT-F100, two other amps I currently have.

I've always thought the RS-1 sounded OK driven by the Raptor. The other amps I've tried don't do better. But the RS-1 ranks very far down in my preference ranking. I would be very pleased if another amp improves it sound.

[tkam]

There might be an impedance mismatch with the Raptor

It's more than a "might be" . The Raptor has a higher output impedance than the impedance of the L3000 there is no way it is driving them even close to their full potential.

[Dusty Chalk]

Okay, so way back on page 1, I asked the wrong question. The question I should have been asking is, why is that one so black? Most of them are the striped woody look, yes? Like this:

How does one get the black pair?

EDIT: Never mind about the US$740 price -- I see that audiocubes still has them for US$718 shipped.

[Nanoha]

Okay, so way back on page 1, I asked the wrong question. The question I should have been asking is, why is that one so black? Most of them are the striped woody look, yes? Like this:

How does one get the black pair?

It is because postjack's camera is terrible.

[deepak]

It is because postjack's camera is terrible.

We can't all roll with DSLRs

[Dusty Chalk]

It is because postjack's camera is terrible.

Wait...his camera made the headphones black? Sounds like a feature to me...although I can't go around life staring at everything through a camera's lens.

[postjack]

It is because a) I have a $160 camera, I have no camera skillz, but most importantly, c) the woodgrain is MUCH more subtle in person. Even in the picture you posted Dusty, you can see the photographer had to use flash to bring out the wood grain. The human eye knows it is wood, but it is much more subtle and dark.

I'll try to take some more pictures later tonight with a flash.

[Dusty Chalk]

why not? works for the paparazzi and people visiting Disney World.

They're them, and I am me.

And no worries about the photo -- I've seen them in person (although only under meet conditions [==well lit]). It was only the (fictitious) black ones that I had not seen.