RS-1 or MS-Pro

[Looser101]

Looking to upgrade from MS-2i. I've heard the RS-1 and I like it alot. Never heard the MS-Pro. Any information on the difference in sound signature would be appreciated. All recommendations would be welcome.

Renato

[Salt Peanuts]

Have you checked the comparative review by Kuma on HF?

[Looser101]

Have you checked the comparative review by Kuma on HF?

No, but I will since you recommended it. I figured I'd post here, since there is too much FOTM and "this is the best evah" on HF.

~R~

[Salt Peanuts]

Here's the URL in case you have difficulty finding it. The review's 3 or 4 years old now, I think.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44488

[Looser101]

Here's the URL in case you have difficulty finding it. The review's 3 or 4 years old now, I think.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44488

I was just reading it now, thanks.

Btw. They will be powered by a tube amp (not very tubey), so I'd be interested in comments on that in particular.

~R~

[HiWire]

Rhydon and Kontai have experience with the MS-Pro... give them a shout

[qazwsx]

Here's a RS-1/W2002/HP-2/MS Pro comparison I found:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpost.php?p=392214&postcount=1

[philodox]

I'd say go with the RS-1 Renato... you already know you like it.

[kontai69]

Rhydon and Kontai have experience with the MS-Pro... give them a shout

Yeah, I used to own both the MS-Pro and RS-1 at the same time. Here are my impressions which I cut and pasted from my review on Head-Fi...

INTRODUCTION

I?ve been comparing the Grado RS-1 (#26xx) and the Alessandro MS-Pro (no SN) for several weeks now and would like to describe, as best as I can, some of my observations. I initially bought the MS-Pro and really liked it. However, I was very curious to hear the infamous RS-1 in my current system and decided to get one to do a head-to-head comparison.

HEADPHONES

Both are ?fully? burned in (at least 120hrs on the RS-1; much more on the MS-Pro). For those who don?t know, the MS-Pro is a rebadged ?variant? of the RS-1 made by Grado. The MS-Pro lacks the wooden buttons on the metal grills. The MS-Pro has a walnut (brown) colored finish while the RS-1 has a more ?honey? color. It is not exactly known how their transducers differ. Only stock bowl pads were used in the comparison on both cans. See below for further discussion.

Associated equipment

CD transport: Music Hall CD25.2 (internally dampened with Dynamat Xtreme, Sorbothane, and Blu-Tac); placed on Townsend Audio isolation platform

D/A converter: Ack! dAck! v2.0 (with high output option)

Amp: Headamp GS-1

Cables: Ack! Industries The Digital Connect digital cable; Kimber Silver Streak IC; power cords: VH Audio Flavor 1 (transport) and Volex 17604 with P&S plug (amp)

I'm not expecting to get too many comments from the wiseguys out there who like to dismiss headphone opinions because they think the user's amp and/or source is inferior.

METHODOLOGY:

Only well recorded store bought CDs (mainly classic rock and some jazz) were used for evaluation (no MP3!). I would listen to a portion of a track several times in a row and then quickly switch cans and note the differences I hear. The dual output jacks of the GS-1 allows both cans to be plugged in simultaneously, greatly reducing the time between switching.

Note: All comments are only in relation to the other headphone.

RESULTS:

Soundstage: This is the most notable difference between them. RS-1 is much more forward and has that in your face quality. MS-Pro is quite laid back. I found the RS-1 soundstage to be relatively flat and two dimensional. MS-Pro has a much better sense of depth and separation between instruments in the depth plane. Width appears to be similar.

Bass: The RS-1 definitely has much more bass that tends to exhibit a ?boomy? quality. I actually found the bass to be too much at times and had to adjust the tension on the headband so that the bowls are as loose on my head as possible. The MS-Pro bass is less abundant but much more tight and accurate. During the beginning of U2?s Bullet the Blue Sky, the kick drum sounds more tight and ?real.?

Vocals: RS-1 has a fully ?body? on the vocals. The MS-Pro tends too sound a little thinner, more distant, and more "echoey" on some recordings, especially those with an inherently laid back midrange. On Frank Sinatra?s Fly Me to the Moon, this is quite noticeable. You can hear this trait on the RS-1, but it is not nearly as noticable.

Guitars: MS-Pro reproduces the ?twang? of the guitar sound more accurately. RS-1 sounds a little ?rounded.? On the Beatle?s Yesterday, the acoustic guitar sounds more real to me. The ?body? of the guitar is reproduced better on MS-Pro.

Cymbals and snare drums: On Steve Winwood?s Higher Love, MS-Pro has much more ?air? and spaciousness with well-reproduced decay. RS-1 sounds noticeably duller and closed in.

CONCLUSIONS

With the above noted differences, I actually had the hardest time deciding which of the two I liked better. The MS-Pro has a more "live" sound to it than the RS-1 due to its more spacious sound and decay. Diana Krall's Live in Paris sounds, well, more "live" with the MS-Pro. The main liability with MS-Pro is the somewhat thin and distant vocals on some music and the less than impactful bass. I eventually decided that I favored the RS-1 because of it?s more forward, aggressive, fuller bodied sound over the more ?accurate? and ?realistic? sound of the MS-Pro. The RS-1 to me was more of a contrast to the Senn 650/Zu that I currently own, which is the reason I decided to purchase a Grado product in the first place.

However, as stated in my ?A Late Friday RS-1? thread, fate ultimately decided which headphone to keep. I unexpectedly got laid off from my job (AFTER purchasing the RS-1) so I will be returning the RS-1 within the 30 day trial period. I need to pay for my own health care now! The MS-Pro, as well as all the gear, were bought a while ago and already are paid for, so they are mine to keep.

Also, if you followed my other thread, you would want to know that the RS-1 reviewed here is the cosmetically better of the two RS-1s I have on hand. It has only a few minor cosmetic defects as noted in that thread. I did not use the significantly defective ?late Friday? sample which I got later.

COMMENTARY ON PADS

I tried reversed bowls on both cans. I even forked over $35 for the highly regarded TTVJ flat pads, since it seems like you can't mention anything about the sound of Grados without someone shouting "TRY FLATS." With both rev bowls and flats, I found the sound to be too muffled. The bass became too punchy and prominent, kind of like turning the subwoofer volume way up in a HT system. Not only that, they were really uncomfortable, especially the flats! I could not wear them for more than a minute. The stock bowls feel and sound much better to me. It is important to note that I have really small and flat outer ears. The bowls completely envelope them to form a near airtight seal. This likely is why the bowls work the best for me. Also, even brand new, I have no issues with the bowls being itchy and I happen to have really sensitive skin.

Addendum...

I have since crushed the bowl pads on the MS-Pro, which brings out the bass more and mostly corrected the issue with the more distant midrange.

[postjack]

welcome to head-case kontai! i've still got the HD650s you sold me back in November. still some of my favorite cans.

[granodemostasa]

Great review, that one actually tells me quite a bit (and that i might be wanting an MS-pro).

[kontai69]

welcome to head-case kontai! i've still got the HD650s you sold me back in November. still some of my favorite cans.

Oh yeah, I remember you. I listened to the HD650's again at the HF international meet and started to feel the love for them again. However, I think I'll wait for the HD700's.

As for the MS-Pros vs. RS-1s, I A/B'ed them at a meet after I wrote that review and the difference wasn't as noticable as I earlier perceived. I'm not sure whether that is due to meet conditions or crushing the bowl pads on the MS-Pros. \ Either way, I still have the MS-Pros and can't imagine ever parting with them. I've listened to nearly all the top end Grados (GS-1000, HP1, HP2, PS-1, RS-1, RS-2) and none of them really cause me to get the itch to upgrade. My MS-Pros also have superior build quality unlike the cosmetically flawed units that Grado is putting out nowadays.

[Looser101]

Welcome Kontai. Thanks for the informative review. Well... just over a week ago i bought myself the MS Pros. They are very much as you described. Took me a few days to get used to the sound signature. Coming from the MS2i, it was quite a change. Having heard the RS-1s a couple times (from memory), the MS-Pro is more neutral and not as warm as the RS-1. Definitely a step towards the HP-2. So far I am happy with my purchase, since I was looking for a more neutral sounding headphone.

Thanks to all who provided their input, and pointing me in the right direction.

~Renato

[hungrych]

Great review dude!

What exactly does crushing the bowls entail?

[aerius]

What exactly does crushing the bowls entail?

Putting some heavy books on top of them to smoosh them down.

[kontai69]

Coming from the MS2i, it was quite a change. Having heard the RS-1s a couple times (from memory), the MS-Pro is more neutral and not as warm as the RS-1.

Congrats on getting the MS-Pro. Just curious, what are some changes you hear from the MS2i?

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

My MS-Pros also have superior build quality unlike the cosmetically flawed units that Grado is putting out nowadays.

There both made at grado, using the same wood and drivers.

Luck of the draw..

Biggie.

[kontai69]

Putting some heavy books on top of them to smoosh them down.

Yeah, that's what I did. Just keep in mind that the crushing is irreversible.

Crushed bowl pads brings the drivers closer to the ears, enhancing bass and bringing forward the midrange a little bit.

[postjack]

Putting some heavy books on top of them to smoosh them down.

Why not just buy flats?

[JBLoudG20]

I believe they are kinda in the middle of flats and bowls, soundwise.

[kontai69]

There both made at grado, using the same wood and drivers.

Luck of the draw..

Biggie.

Well, the chances of getting a new well-built wooden Grado/Alessandro SEEMS statistically slim. I base this observation from the ones I've seen and handled at various HF meets, including the international meet. I've also examined dozens of posted pics of new RS-1/RS-2/MS-Pros on HF. From what I've seen the newer builds are noticably inferior in build quality (eg splintered edges, rough finish, black specks, etc.). I have actually only seen one pic of a new RS-1 that looks good, the rest are flawed. I actually owned a very poorly finished RS-1, the "late Friday" edition. I can estimate the age by the serial number and/or the darkness of the finish and/or the shape of the notch in the metal ring (round vs. square).

Unfortunately, even the flagship GS-1K is not immune from quality defects. There were two at TTVJ's room at the international HF meet, both of which have very noticable wooden splinters along the inner ring and edges.

FWIW, here is a pic of my MS-Pros...

[kontai69]

I believe they are kinda in the middle of flats and bowls, soundwise.

True, crushed bowls are not as flat as flat pads and sound differently and fit differently as well.

I've tried the TTVJ's flat pads and did not like the sound as well as the comfort. At least I was able to sell them for not much of a loss.

[kontai69]

There both made at grado, using the same wood and drivers.

Luck of the draw..

Biggie.

Oh, I realized that I forgot to mention that my MS-Pros are a relatively older build (>2 years old). I did not mean to imply that MS-Pros and RS-1s were/are built differently. Sorry for the confusion.

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Why not just buy flats?

You get some of the benefits of bowl pads (more soundstage, less bass) with less of the weaknesses of bowl pads (bright/fatiguing). Once I got the highs in my system smooth enough, I preferred crushed bowls on my rs-1's to flat pads.

Biggie.

[postjack]

You get some of the benefits of bowl pads (more soundstage, less bass) with less of the weaknesses of bowl pads (bright/fatiguing). Once I got the highs in my system smooth enough, I preferred crushed bowls on my rs-1's to flat pads.

Biggie.

Interesting. Since I bought my HP-2 and Melos I've pretty much only used flats on the RS-1. I might try the crushed bowls someday, but I'm quite pleased with their current sound.