A Search for the All in One: USB DAC + Headphone Amp One Box Solution

[Nanoha]

I've gone through a few random setups and listened to a number of dedicated amps here and there over the past two years. A few days ago, however, I realized that I longed for a new beginning. My rig has been a total mess with cables running here and there, and equipment piled on top of each other at odd angles. I wanted something simpler. I started thinking about Jason's (jjcha) simplistic m902 setup and Peter's (Iron_Dreamer) multiple encounters with various all-in-one pieces.

When I first started out in this hobby, my goal was an USB DAC and headphone amp all-in-one unit. Something like the Apogee Mini-DAC. I, as time has progressed, digressed and went the way of separate pieces. Now that I'm treading back towards the all-in-one territory, I know it'll be different from the beginning: I've been spoiled by dedicated amps and sources and know that achieving the same level of performance through an all-in-one would be unlikely.

I'm ready to make compromises. And I've decided to make a list of the suitable options out there. I was hoping people here could provide me with insights as to what to do. There is the initial question of: What should I focus on, an unit more focused on the amp section or an unit more focused on the DAC section. Hmmm... oh well, we'll see.

So again, the criteria being: USB DAC + Headphone Amp; I will be using low-impedance headphones

1. Benchmark DAC1 USB - I've listened to the Benchmark in the past, a long long time ago. I didn't like it. But I was listening to the SA5000 out of it at the time.. Hahaha.

2. Headroom Desktop Amp (Home Amp and DAC Modules, Stepped Attenuator) - Hey, it's Headroom. It's solid. It's dependable. Maybe a good choice.

3. Meier Corda Opera - I've never liked the sound of Meier's amps. Not very musical in my opinion.

4. Grace m902 - Mmmmmm. Jason likes it. Maybe I would too.

5. Apogee Mini-DAC - I've always wanted to hear one. Never got the chance though.

6. AQVOX USB 2 D/A - Pretty big in size. Iron_Dreamer thinks it's decent.

7. PS Audio GCHA - Owned it. Liked it. Pretty big and heavy due to that huge toroidal. Imaging off perhaps? DAC section kind bleh.

8. Stereolink 1400 - Hmmm, probably not the best thing, but who knows?

And then something else to consider: I'll probably still keep a dedicated amp somewhere lying around at home and away from school. (So I'll have access to it during 1/4 of the year.)

So anyways, thanks so much everyone for all the help! This community never ceases to amaze me when it comes good advice.

[Nanoha]

I'm actually quite interested in options 1, 2, 4, and 5. But with little chance to hear these without either being shameless or actually buying, I'll probably have to depend on people's advice and suggestions. Perhaps in the end it will come down to features and functionality.

[hungrych]

It looks to me like a Headroom Balanced Desktop would be far and away the best choice.

[ojnihs]

It looks to me like a Headroom Balanced Desktop would be far and away the best choice.

would be my choice

[postjack]

sometimes when I want to goto the headroom site real quick, I accidentally type in www.headroom.com instead of www.headphone.com. Does anybody else do this? I've been too afraid to go past the first screen on the www.headroom.com site.

[postjack]

but OT, if you put a gun to my head and made me choose, i'd definitely go headroom. this is based on no actual experience spent with headroom products, since I have never heard them.

[grawk]

I've gone through a few random setups and listened to a number of dedicated amps here and there over the past two years. A few days ago, however, I realized that I longed for a new beginning. My rig has been a total mess with cables running here and there, and equipment piled on top of each other at odd angles. I wanted something simpler. I started thinking about Jason's (jjcha) simplistic m902 setup and Peter's (Iron_Dreamer) multiple encounters with various all-in-one pieces.

When I first started out in this hobby, my goal was an USB DAC and headphone amp all-in-one unit. Something like the Apogee Mini-DAC. I, as time has progressed, digressed and went the way of separate pieces. Now that I'm treading back towards the all-in-one territory, I know it'll be different from the beginning: I've been spoiled by dedicated amps and sources and know that achieving the same level of performance through an all-in-one would be unlikely.

I'm ready to make compromises. And I've decided to make a list of the suitable options out there. I was hoping people here could provide me with insights as to what to do. There is the initial question of: What should I focus on, an unit more focused on the amp section or an unit more focused on the DAC section. Hmmm... oh well, we'll see.

So again, the criteria being: USB DAC + Headphone Amp; I will be using low-impedance headphones

6. AQVOX USB 2 D/A - Pretty big in size. Iron_Dreamer thinks it's decent.

And then something else to consider: I'll probably still keep a dedicated amp somewhere lying around at home and away from school. (So I'll have access to it during 1/4 of the year.)

So anyways, thanks so much everyone for all the help! This community never ceases to amaze me when it comes good advice.

You won't have great experiences using low impedance headphones balanced out of the dacs. The amp built into the aqvox isn't good (or at least the one in the cec isn't, and they're effectively the same, only the cec is in a smaller case.

[n_maher]

sometimes when I want to goto the headroom site real quick, I accidentally type in www.headroom.com instead of www.headphone.com. Does anybody else do this? I've been too afraid to go past the first screen on the www.headroom.com site.

Yeah, years ago they tried to buy the site from the guy and it did not go well.

On topic: I really enjoyed my time with the balanced desktop (home modules) and would have no problem living with it.

[Grand Enigma]

Lavry DA10...modded with usb or some usb to spdif converter

[Iron_Dreamer]

I've settled on the Apogee Mini-DAC. Until I can afford a $10k+, I think it does the job admirably. Its' DAC section is up to the class, the headphone output is quite worthwhile (better than the Lavry and Benchmark's), and the sound signature is to my liking (not so much the case with the Aqvox, it's a bit too laid-back). BTW it's the MkII Aqvox that has the good headphone amp (albeit a bit voltage-limited, in terms of maximum loudness). The Apogee and Lavry are quite similar partswise and soundwise, but the Apogee is a lot more versatile, and I found the clicky volume know of the Lavry a bit irritating (esp. compared to the Apogee's smooth pot).

I've used the M902 a lot in the past, and it's got a very nice headphone amp, but the DAC section is very unimpressive (I actually prefer the output of my RME card). It does have great ergonomics, features, usability and build quality though. But you do pay dearly for it compared to the others.

I found the Opera very satisfying soundwise, but the features just weren't there. The lack of digital inputs (optical and AES, my two most commonly used), as well as the awkward switch, and annoying clicking relay were issues that put me off of it.

I've never much liked the current headroom amps, they've always sounded somewhat dark and Sennheiser-esque (or was that just the Wadia player they're always hooked up to). But being that I've only listened at meets here and there, it's hardly a definitive opinion. I do think the ergonomics are a bit lackluster compared to some of the others here (though better than the Opera).

[Dusty Chalk]

The Headroom, Apogee, Benchmark, and Grace units would all be on my short list, and all but the Headroom frequently show up used on audiogon, eBay, and H**d-F*. So I'd take it slowly and buy all the others one at a time at a decent price and try them all, and sell off the ones you don't like. I'd save the Headroom for last, because it's probably the best choice, and that's the one you're probably going to end up with, so by then you'd have a warm fuzzy that you're making the right decision.

There's also a tube based one with a USB input from the same gal who sold a co-worker their Xiang Sheng -- I don't remember if it's also a Xiang Sheng, I'll look later.

Also, the thing to look at is the drivers -- do your research, and make sure you buy one that bypasses the kmixer, or has the option to do so.

[ojnihs]

I've settled on the Apogee Mini-DAC.

So that's what you replaced your Gilmore Balanced with...good choice. I still think that the Apogee Mini-DAC was the best DAC that I've tried (not that I've tried many of them, but still). I preferred it heavily over the DAC-1, which I enjoyed immensely, especially because it was so fast and crisp, but I felt that the slight warmth that the Apogee offers was better suited to my tastes. Too bad I had the sell the thing (along with almost everything I've ever bought audio-wise) because I needed the cash for college.

[mjg]

i still like my minidac. Does a good job, asio driveres are good, and i listen to all flac files anyway. It's a great little gadget, i'd only bother upgrading for something alot better. I've had a few decent sources, and this ones kept me happy for the last year or so. Great with grados, not quit as bright as a benchmark dac1, just as detailed. Most head-fiers don't like it cuz its not pretty i guess.

[Eric5676]

So that's what you replaced your Gilmore Balanced with...good choice. I still think that the Apogee Mini-DAC was the best DAC that I've tried (not that I've tried many of them, but still). I preferred it heavily over the DAC-1, which I enjoyed immensely, especially because it was so fast and crisp, but I felt that the slight warmth that the Apogee offers was better suited to my tastes. Too bad I had the sell the thing (along with almost everything I've ever bought audio-wise) because I needed the cash for college.

Totally my experience as well.

I'll go as far as calling the Apogee mini-DAC a giant killer outright or close to it.

[Patu]

I'll go as far as calling the Apogee mini-DAC a giant killer outright or close to it.

I would call it the ugliest piece of audio gear out there.

[Nanoha]

It's ugly. I'm ugly. We might be a match!

I mean...

[Patu]

How about Lehmann Black Cube Linear (with USB input)?

We had it in our local minimeet at the weekend. It sounded very good connected with USB. I think it's in the same price class as GCHA.

http://www.headphone-amplifier.com/black_cube_linear_usb.htm

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

The GCHA has poor imaging so it wouldn't be on my list.

Biggie.

[Dusty Chalk]

I would call it the ugliest piece of audio gear out there.

I disagree -- I mean, c'mon, it goes up to 11! (And yes, I've seen confirmation that that is indeed a purposeful Spinal Tap reference.)

[saint.panda]

I've been a long advocate for the Apogee on headfi. Imo it's really its convenience aspects that makes it stand out from the rest:

- pretty good and strong headphone out

- according to the manula: "ultra low impedance output" meaning you can connect your balanced HD650s to it without much of a quality loss. As I've stated elsewhere, I prefer the Apogee's XLR line out to the HD 650 fed by a single-ended Opera.

- if you wish, you can power on the headphone out only, without giving power to the line outs

- you can set jumper settings whether to have the line out affected by the volume control at all

- lots of inputs and accepted data streams

- small, lightweight, durable (very important for me)

It's really ugly though. I mean, the design elements are PINK

[Dusty Chalk]

Or you could get a completely no-name like the Sigtone Shek or the T.M.S. T200 Mk II (this latter one is the one I think I was thinking of earlier, but it doesn't look quite right, and I can't seem to find the previous seller.

[n_maher]

Speaking of the Apogee, I'm currently building an external regulated power supply for a friend on HF. I'll be interested to hear the results of that experiment to see if it at all tracks with the differences on the SB3's analog outputs. They both use a switching power supply although I have no idea how noisy the Apogee's is. The SB3's is awful.

[Salt Peanuts]

Most head-fiers don't like it cuz its not pretty i guess.

You know, I kinda liked the silver with purple knobs. Now that we're talking about it, I do miss mine (though not as much as ECD 1).

[postjack]

So when running a computer as source setup into an all-in-one amp + DAC, what is everyone's opinion on the best connection? I did USB to my Stello DA100, but always had the suspicion I might have been better off buying an Emu or equivalent soundcard with a decent optical transport, and even better, its own ASIO drivers.

Any thoughts, opinions, irrefutable facts, or random profanities?

[Salt Peanuts]

With an Apogee, you can connect it via FireWire.