best closed headphones?

[postjack]

Hmmm, looks like I'll have to have an L3000 room at next years head-case 2008 international meet. next year we are looking to have the meet somewhere in either the phillipines or north mississipi.

[Tyll Hertsens]

FWIW, I prefer the HD25-1 to the HD280, both in terms of sound quality, and isolation. Yes, they are 2x the price, but worth it IMO.

I'll go back and have a listen, but as I recall the HD-25 sounds pretty damn good too. The problem is that they really rest somewhat on your ear other then being fully circumaural. But I agree, they sound good; very dynamic and punchy.

[Ben Gramain]

None of the high-enders isolate any. 10db tops for the A-T's, and they'd be the best. The other 'closed' phones are merely 'enclosed'.

HD25 is your phone if you want real isolation. Velour pads + OFC cable increase comfort and lessen grate. Ultrasones might be up your street too. 280Pros send me to sleep. zzzzzzz.......

[Tyll Hertsens]

280Pros send me to sleep. zzzzzzz.......

That's fuckin funny. They are big and enclosed feeling. Have you ever notice that pulling the headband in and out doesn't really change the size much, just makes them wider. Check it out.

It wouldn't take much for me to say the best full-sized sealed headphone is the HD25. It would be bad advice for most consumers, though.

No, earwickers problem is that there really aren't any great sealed cans.

And I still lust for R-10s.

[earwicker7]

No, earwickers problem is that there really aren't any great sealed cans.

They're kind of going to have to do until I get the isolation booth, which I'll probably order later this week. Doc says I may have given myself tinnitus from cranking them up so loud. D'oh!

[Ben Gramain]

Have you ever notice that pulling the headband in and out doesn't really change the size much, just makes them wider.

Not exactly, but I have always thought faster runners could use them as head-mounted spoilers.

[mjg]

That's fuckin funny. They are big and enclosed feeling. Have you ever notice that pulling the headband in and out doesn't really change the size much, just makes them wider. Check it out.

It wouldn't take much for me to say the best full-sized sealed headphone is the HD25. It would be bad advice for most consumers, though.

No, earwickers problem is that there really aren't any great sealed cans.

And I still lust for R-10s.

hi tyll,

if you could pick any cans for the price, what would they be? 701s?

[909]

They're kind of going to have to do until I get the isolation booth, which I'll probably order later this week. Doc says I may have given myself tinnitus from cranking them up so loud. D'oh!

wait until you get the B-52

I never had such ear pain as I did with the Raptor--needed to crank it up for the music to sound right because otherwise it had a thin presentation. The B-52 is as far as I understand it two slightly upgraded Raptors. And Ray probably voices his amps with either the 508.24 and the G08, which are full and silky smooth sounding sources. Though, the G08 has some unnatural sound qualities and can flavor the sound a bit processed and digitalized. Can't forget Ray listens very loud and assuming that's where his amps are optimized.

isolation booth (disassembled and assembled pics--please)

[earwicker7]

isolation booth (disassembled and assembled pics--please)

Will do . It's just going to be tucked away in a corner of my bedroom, maybe 4' x 4'.

[Pinto]

I'll go back and have a listen, but as I recall the HD-25 sounds pretty damn good too. The problem is that they really rest somewhat on your ear other then being fully circumaural. But I agree, they sound good; very dynamic and punchy.

[Pinto]

Sorry, noob goof - second part of post:

You're right (of course), they are not nearly as comfy as most circumaural cans. But at least for airplane use, I have never found a circumaural can that isolates very well; in fact, cans like the HD280 and DT770, on airplanes, actually seem to accentuate low-frequency jet noise.

[mirumu]

I can drop a penny or two. I was looking at the Stax 4070; has anyone tried it?

I've tried them, sorry I didn't respond earlier, I've been offline for a few days. I borrowed them off Carl for about two weeks (I live about 30 mins drive from his house). They are very good. Not Omega II good in my opinion, but up in that league. I've done a few detailed comparisons with the O2s, baby Orpheus and other gear on those other forums (same username). As far as isolation goes, they're great. With the O2s on I can easily hear a TV in the same room if it was on; with the 4070s I couldn't hear the TV at all unless the volume was reasonably high. The 4070s are reference headphones aimed at pro use and I do think it shows personally making them a little less "emotional" than some more colored headphones but even with that they still can be a lot of fun to listen to. There's no harshness or sibilance, they're very easy to listen to.

[mirumu]

You know, I was THIS close to buying the Stax for the same reason you gave. The only thing that kept me from doing it was the whole "This will never work on any other amp" thing. That's still a big bite to chew, IMO.

Yes, and inversely that's part of the reason I don't have any really high end dynamics. I'd need to buy another amp.

[aerius]

Yes, and inversely that's part of the reason I don't have any really high end dynamics. I'd need to buy another amp.

I think this is true of most high-end headphones, whether they're dynamic, electrostatics, or some other technology. The owner eventually ends up building a system which is specific to that headphone to get as much out of it as he can.

[Ben Gramain]

Sorry, noob goof - second part of post:

You're right (of course), they are not nearly as comfy as most circumaural cans. But at least for airplane use, I have never found a circumaural can that isolates very well; in fact, cans like the HD280 and DT770, on airplanes, actually seem to accentuate low-frequency jet noise.

That's because the circumaural cans provide a resonance space for the low-frequency noise. The HD25 doesn't, so it works fairly well but the comfort is an issue.

Stick to IEM's for planes.

[TheSloth]

I've tried them, sorry I didn't respond earlier, I've been offline for a few days. I borrowed them off Carl for about two weeks (I live about 30 mins drive from his house). They are very good. Not Omega II good in my opinion, but up in that league. I've done a few detailed comparisons with the O2s, baby Orpheus and other gear on those other forums (same username). As far as isolation goes, they're great. With the O2s on I can easily hear a TV in the same room if it was on; with the 4070s I couldn't hear the TV at all unless the volume was reasonably high. The 4070s are reference headphones aimed at pro use and I do think it shows personally making them a little less "emotional" than some more colored headphones but even with that they still can be a lot of fun to listen to. There's no harshness or sibilance, they're very easy to listen to.

Did you ever compare them to any of the lambdas by any chance, or even just by memory. I could never live with the peaky upper midrange of the lamdas (somewhere around 1k), and was wondering if the 4070 retained that signature?

[Pinto]

That's because the circumaural cans provide a resonance space for the low-frequency noise. The HD25 doesn't, so it works fairly well but the comfort is an issue.

Stick to IEM's for planes.

I understand your point about circumaurals. But I don't like IEM's, so it's not an option for me to "stick with them". I also don't mind the HD25's comfort-wise.

[mirumu]

Did you ever compare them to any of the lambdas by any chance, or even just by memory. I could never live with the peaky upper midrange of the lamdas (somewhere around 1k), and was wondering if the 4070 retained that signature?

I never compared the two directly since I didn't own and Lamdbas till later but I do own some SR-404s today and remember the sound of the 4070s well. The 4070, despite having the same drivers as the 404, does not sound anything like it. Carl noticed the same thing and commented that he believed it was due to the housing and damping differences. To me these headphones are a perfect illustration of the difference that the housing and damping can make. The 4070 far easier to listen to and has none of the strange upper midrange harshness that to me is the biggest flaw of the 404 and it seems you feel the same way about the 404s there. The 404 also comes across as brighter in general where the 4070 is more balanced with less obvious coloration. Personally I found I could enjoy any music on the 4070 whereas there are many CDs that I just can't listen to on the 404s, they're just too fatiguing and grating.

To me the 4070s are like a more clinical/honest version of the O2s and these two have more in common than the 4070 and 404 do with each other. I was quite surprised by this myself when I heard the 404s since I expected the two would share more traits. I can't dispute what my ears tell me though.

[Carl]

Well myself and my good friend have rather different takes on the 404 sound. I didn't find them bright and fatiguing so much as warm/mushy and pedestrian. All that elevated treble comes in one big lump, kinda like the torque in an old diesel powered car. That bit can be EQed out, assuming you're not allergic to such measures, but timbrally it's still a lost cause.

The 4070 isn't perfectly neutral by any stretch, there's what I call a "dead spot" in the mids which lack the breath of life, by hey, what were you expecting, perfection? From a closed headphone? Ain't gonna happen. As compromises go, though, I have precious little to complain about considerin the alteratives.

As far as closed headphones go I've yet to hear anything better but I still need to drag a pair of L3000s and R10s into my cave to comment unequivially.

[Salt Peanuts]

Dang, you guys talking about 4070 is making me wish I had kept my KGSS DX. Ah, if someone would only make top-tier closed cans that actually blocked sound in and out.

[Salt Peanuts]

Dang, you guys talking about 4070 is making me wish I had kept my KGSS DX. Ah, if someone would only make top-tier closed dynamic cans that actually blocked sound in and out.

[TheSloth]

I never compared the two directly since I didn't own and Lamdbas till later but I do own some SR-404s today and remember the sound of the 4070s well. The 4070, despite having the same drivers as the 404, does not sound anything like it. Carl noticed the same thing and commented that he believed it was due to the housing and damping differences. To me these headphones are a perfect illustration of the difference that the housing and damping can make. The 4070 far easier to listen to and has none of the strange upper midrange harshness that to me is the biggest flaw of the 404 and it seems you feel the same way about the 404s there. The 404 also comes across as brighter in general where the 4070 is more balanced with less obvious coloration. Personally I found I could enjoy any music on the 4070 whereas there are many CDs that I just can't listen to on the 404s, they're just too fatiguing and grating.

To me the 4070s are like a more clinical/honest version of the O2s and these two have more in common than the 4070 and 404 do with each other. I was quite surprised by this myself when I heard the 404s since I expected the two would share more traits. I can't dispute what my ears tell me though.

Sounds like we do hear the 404's the same way. Though, I had the 303/313 combo but the differences are supposedly very small. Very interesting about the 4070 - my apartment is just never that quiet, but I never found closed phones I could live with. The 4070 might just be worth a shot - I suppose they shouldn't be that difficult to sell if not.

[mirumu]

Well myself and my good friend have rather different takes on the 404 sound. I didn't find them bright and fatiguing so much as warm/mushy and pedestrian. All that elevated treble comes in one big lump, kinda like the torque in an old diesel powered car. That bit can be EQed out, assuming you're not allergic to such measures, but timbrally it's still a lost cause.

I'm not sure our thoughts are quite as different as it may seem. I hear the issues with the 404 you describe too but I don't personally mind them so much. There is always something lacking with the 404's reproduction of timbre and it is always pedestrian like you describe. These factors are enough to make me want to switch over to the O2s but at the same time I don't find it stops me from outright enjoying the music either. As to the harsh treble/upper midrange I don't have an EQ suitable for correcting it which is probably why that's my biggest problem with them. On many CDs that doesn't seem to be a big issue but on others the 404s are virtually unlistenable (The recent Long Blondes album comes to mind). I'm sure it's not all the 404's fault, but other headphones don't put a spotlight on that area of the frequency spectrum to the same degree. Some of it may also be my ears, I often find some aspects of the treble and upper midrange harsh.

Sounds like we do hear the 404's the same way. Though, I had the 303/313 combo but the differences are supposedly very small. Very interesting about the 4070 - my apartment is just never that quiet, but I never found closed phones I could live with. The 4070 might just be worth a shot - I suppose they shouldn't be that difficult to sell if not.

My experience with good closed headphones is rather non-existant so I wouldn't read too much into my comments on those aspects. With that disclaimer stated, I feel the 4070s do portray a respectable sense of soundstage depth. They are still clearly closed and aren't going to fool anyone in to thinking otherwise but they don't sound overly constrained. I think Carl's comment regarding the 4070s compromises is quite true, I found little to complain about myself.

[Carl]

but at the same time I don't find it stops me from outright enjoying the music either.

Well, one would hope. There's plenty of cheapy headphones that are surpremely listenable iff not the last word in anything. Headphones that are out and out unenjoyable (beyond a certain baseline pricepoint at least) are less common than us headphone freaks like to let on.

[mirumu]

Well, one would hope. There's plenty of cheapy headphones that are surpremely listenable iff not the last word in anything. Headphones that are out and out unenjoyable (beyond a certain baseline pricepoint at least) are less common than us headphone freaks like to let on.

You must have listened to better cheap headphones than me then. I wouldn't have spent the last fifteen years slowly upgrading headphones if they were mostly enjoyable.

But yes, price often doesn't have a lot of bearing on how enjoyable a headphone will be.