$10K, what should I get?

[earwicker7]

that's because everything gets deleted at the other place

It wasn't just head-fi (I'm assuming that's what you're talking about). Really, this is the only site that has negative views. This isn't some type of Scientology thing, is it?

[deepak]

Here's the thing that's got me befuddled. I didn't just do a google search at random for this amp. This was recommended to me by the guy from Great Northern Sound. Everyone here RAVES about those guys, says they make a bad-ass source, really know their shit, etc. If this is the case, why would this guy point me in this direction when I asked about an amp if it's such a piece of crap?

Believe it or not you're going to find some really biased info against RSA here. If you like the sound of the B52, then that's all that matters to you.

For what it's worth I thought it sounded pretty good. All caveats apply- meet conditions, unfamiliar music (audiophile recording) and source.

edit: good with the HD600. IMO it didn't sound good with the PS-1, bass was very uncontrolled (and loud!)-- my guess is output impedance mismatch?

[earwicker7]

Believe it or not you're going to find some really biased info against RSA here.

Oh, tell me the dirt... gossip rocks

[909]

You've not delved deep enough into the Head-Fi search engine, but if you take the time to look you'll find negatives. On Head-Fi you mainly see the outside of the chassis, but here you see the inside. And usually the truth is somewhere in the middle. A lot of what you read on Head-Fi is sheer customer mania. And there's other stuff such as some manufacturers are ignored or not liked (during different periods) whereas I believe Ray built his first headphone amp at jude's suggestion and has always pretty much maintained a good relationship with those running that site.

[909]

This was recommended to me by the guy from Great Northern Sound...If this is the case, why would this guy point me in this direction when I asked about an amp if it's such a piece of crap?

Has he heard even one RS Audio amp? If he has, has he compared it against any other headphone amps such as Eddie Current, HeadAmp, HeadRoom, SinglePower, Woo, etc... Much of the info that is provided in those pro mag reviews and such people like Great Northern Sound is just regurgitate information. Most of these people have spent little time with headphones or even headphone amps. And where do they get most, if not all, of that info--guess (big hint--head-fi). RSA amps aren't bad--but they are overpriced, overrated and over-hyped--and without hearing/comparing a few amps you'll never know what you actually like. It's unforunate, but true. All I can say is trust your own ears and test a few amps. And after you've done so if you still want to sink $5K into the B-52 by all means go right ahead. As long as you know, you're picking an extremely expensive amp after doing your homework.

[deepak]

I think more information needs to be released on the Odin

[909]

yes, I agree.

As far as I know only one is in existence and is now owned by jp11801. But I've pretty much provided all the info I know about the HD-2 (AKA-odin). If enough people start bugging Craig about it. It might result in a small run.

[Dusty Chalk]

And most importantly, the two RSA amps I heard (admittedly: under meet conditions, etc.), were a terrible match with W2002's, which were my headphone of choice back then.

Oh, and you'll definitely want to keep whatever tube amp you end up getting on the outside of the isolation booth, otherwise it will get intolerably warm in there.

[tkam]

This was recommended to me by the guy from Great Northern Sound. Everyone here RAVES about those guys, says they make a bad-ass source, really know their shit, etc. If this is the case, why would this guy point me in this direction when I asked about an amp if it's such a piece of crap?

Well I think I'm the only one here thats actually done any business with GNSC and yes I think the mods they do on the Opus 21 are really good but that doesn't mean I'd take their word on anything else.

[earwicker7]

Alright, we've established that nobody here likes RSA. Here's my problem... I don't really have the time to go to meets, run across the state looking for boutique stores, tracking down people on this site and bugging them for a listen, etc. Honestly, even if I did, that's not really my style. I'm kind of a misanthrope and, with the exception of a few close friends, don't really enjoy being around people. So my only real option is to take the word of others. I really, really don't mean for this to sound disrespectful, but I'm going to take the word of a professional (the GNS guy) over some guys on a website, especially given the fact that it is the only website with such views, with all other websites having views that are diametrically opposite (ie, "best amp ever").

That being said, I do value all of your input and will continue to take it into consideration. I owe you guys a ton just for suggesting the isolation booth... I would NEVER have thought of that on my own.

Peace

[n_maher]

First things first, my comment was not meant as a personal insult or anything close. The fact is that, from a technical standpoint, Ray's amps don't seem to be the best bang for your buck. In my opinion there is no questioning his chassis design and attention to detail (assuming of course that you like his designs to begin with) and there is certainly some value to that. And FWIW I kinda like the guy, our relationship is not hindered by either the customer or competitor aspect so I've got no beef with him or his company. What is really unfortunate about the current headphone amp market is that his major tube-amp competition is shooting themselves in the foot (Mikhail) with long lead times unless you wan the current FOTM amp (Extreme).

So I don't blame you for going with the B-52, it's probably not the best amp for the money but that's not to say it isn't a nice amp. I listened to it a bit in NYC with balanced HD600s and actually thought it sounded pretty damn good.

One more thing, it isn't just RSA that gets criticized around here. Any manufacturer who doesn't live up to expectations is likely to be roasted with equal vigor by most of us. So unlike other sites that paint a pretty rosy picture of the landscape you're more likely to get a little less flower and more reality from this site. Like anything else take all of it with a grain of salt and in the end let your own ears be the judge. [/off soap box]

[earwicker7]

The fact is that, from a technical standpoint, Ray's amps don't seem to be the best bang for your buck. In my opinion there is no questioning his chassis design and attention to detail (assuming of course that you like his designs to begin with) and there is certainly some value to that.

Yeah, I have to admit that was a HUGE part of my interest in the amp. It's just flat out the coolest looking amp I've ever seen. That may not be important to some, but it really is to me. I've shown photos to a few of my friends and they were stunned.

[Dusty Chalk]

I'm going to take the word of a professional (the GNS guy) over some guys on a website,

Except (a) he's probably just regurgitating information from Stereophile, and ( has he even heard it for himself?

Just make sure that if/when you buy it, you're able to return it.

So, you actually listen to salesmen? I bet they love you.

[tiberian]

Yeah, I have to admit that was a HUGE part of my interest in the amp. It's just flat out the coolest looking amp I've ever seen. That may not be important to some, but it really is to me. I've shown photos to a few of my friends and they were stunned.

how the hell is the b52 good looking with all the bright looking stuff? the gs-x easily takes the title of the best looking amp imho, just because it looks really slick and clean.

[earwicker7]

how the hell is the b52 good looking with all the bright looking stuff?

You know what they say about beauty and the eye of the beholder. To me, it's beautiful.

[mirumu]

So my only real option is to take the word of others. I really, really don't mean for this to sound disrespectful, but I'm going to take the word of a professional (the GNS guy) over some guys on a website, especially given the fact that it is the only website with such views, with all other websites having views that are diametrically opposite (ie, "best amp ever").

Just as a reminder, this is the internet and the internet is chock full of ill-informed fanboys who push their favored product. I'm not insulting anyone there, it's just the way it is. You can't blame people for getting excited about their new purchases, especially when they're used to the mass produced garbage foisted on the market by the large companies, but without sampling a large cross section of what is out there people cannot help being biased and over exaggerating how good a product really is. Equally many "professionals" aren't necessarily any better, I've had many of them try to push gear on me that is the total antithesis of what I personally enjoy just because some hifi-mag or website tells them it's good or they are getting some kind of kickback (not implying that is the case with RSA gear). In some cases it's like they haven't even heard something truly good themselves or just can't tell the difference. Some even admit it or claim they can't hear the things I do.

There is no substitute for listening with your own ears but if I can't do that I'll much sooner take the word of those who have heard a wide variety of equipment (and do so to further their own personal enjoyment) as well as those who can read a circuit diagram and have experience building the things. At least here people call a spade a spade and are up front with their likes and dislikes. How can you trust a website or a professional when everything they sell or promote are varying degrees of "great"?

[earwicker7]

How can you trust a website or a professional when everything they sell or promote are varying degrees of "great"?

You know, I agree with you for the most part. This is America, everything is for sale

That being said, I am a stickler for reputations typically being earned. 99% of the time, in my humble opinion, products are considered the best by "pros" for a reason. If the majority of, for example, race cars drivers buy Ferraris, you could say it's a huge conspiracy by the marketing machine, race car drivers, engine specialists, tire specialists, etc, or you could apply Occam's Razor and assume that they are desired because they are desirable. I'm sure there are exceptions to this rule, but typically it's when a top-of-the-line company reaches for "broader appeal." For example, the Porsche 914 or 944 were both attempts to give Porsche to the masses, and they were both crap. But I don't think that any of Porsche's flagships were ever anything other than incredible. I'm going to assume RSA is the same. Maybe "Amp A" or "Amp B" that are lower level versions don't sound like the coolest thing since sliced bread. But I just can't accept that the guy from GNS, the guys from Stereophile, the guys who run every headphone site with the exception of this one, etc, are all somehow secretly tonedeaf and just in it for the money. I'm just not to that level of cynicism yet.

[grawk]

You know, I agree with you for the most part. This is America, everything is for sale

That being said, I am a stickler for reputations typically being earned. 99% of the time, in my humble opinion, products are considered the best by "pros" for a reason. If the majority of, for example, race cars drivers buy Ferraris, you could say it's a huge conspiracy by the marketing machine, race car drivers, engine specialists, tire specialists, etc, or you could apply Occam's Razor and assume that they are desired because they are desirable. I'm sure there are exceptions to this rule, but typically it's when a top-of-the-line company reaches for "broader appeal." For example, the Porsche 914 or 944 were both attempts to give Porsche to the masses, and they were both crap. But I don't think that any of Porsche's flagships were ever anything other than incredible. I'm going to assume RSA is the same. Maybe "Amp A" or "Amp B" that are lower level versions don't sound like the coolest thing since sliced bread. But I just can't accept that the guy from GNS, the guys from Stereophile, the guys who run every headphone site with the exception of this one, etc, are all somehow secretly tonedeaf and just in it for the money. I'm just not to that level of cynicism yet.

You have a point if they paid for ray samuels amps. But the vast majority of people giving advice on this particular web forum have spent quality time with the gear they're recommending. No one is saying the guy at GNS is tone deaf. Just misinformed.

[postjack]

The fact is that RS amps have the reputation outside of headphone forums as the amps to get. Over at the sh.tv, excited audiophiles just realizing they can get good sound from headphones always have "a Raptor on the way!" cos its got a tube in it

[mirumu]

That being said, I am a stickler for reputations typically being earned. 99% of the time, in my humble opinion, products are considered the best by "pros" for a reason.

I do agree that "pros" who actually work with the gear everyday and listen at home know what they're talking about. I just don't think that these pros are the people writing reviews in Stereophile, working in your average bricks and mortar store or posting on the typical headphone forums. Sometimes evaluating a piece of equipment might take days, weeks, months or even years spent listening and getting to know it like the back of your hand. These are the opinions I personally want to hear about and are typically hard to find. I feel many here fall into that category. It's certainly what I aspire to do when reviewing equipment myself.

But I just can't accept that the guy from GNS, the guys from Stereophile, the guys who run every headphone site with the exception of this one, etc, are all somehow secretly tonedeaf and just in it for the money. I'm just not to that level of cynicism yet.

Sure, and I'm not implying they're in it for them money. You mentioned that you are a stickler for reputations being earned. What I'm questioning is if the level of real world experience these places have justifies the reputation you view them as having. I personally don't believe that is the case. I'm not going to make a blanket statement on the matter, I've no doubt there are people in these places who know what they're talking about but many out there have a reputation for being shills too.

With the reputation RSA amps have many will buy their amps without a second thought and no doubt they sound much better than what they're used to. Obviously glowing reviews will result from this. It doesn't mean there isn't better out there though or that the glowing reviews are proved true by sheer numbers.

[earwicker7]

ugh, don't believe Stereophile.

All I know is that back in the day, when there was no internet outside of Al Gore's brain , there was NOTHING else to rely on in print. Literally, it was the only printed source you could turn to if you were an audiophile. I based my entire stereo system around their reviews. I was 110% satisfied with EVERY component I bought based on their recommendations. Call it mindless loyalty to a brand, but they've never steered me in the wrong direction. If it weren't for them, I would have thought that Pioneer was the top of the line brand. I would have never heard of Velodyne, which I still think makes the best subwoofers any normal person can afford. I would never have bought the Carver Sonic Hologram generator, which was basically Headroom's "Crossfeed" technology twenty years ago and was probably considered "crap" by a lot of people. If that's your guys idea of crap, maybe I'm missing something, but those guys have never done wrong by me.

[Dusty Chalk]

I like Stereophile, but they don't know jack shit about headphones or headphone amps. Ken Kessler is the only reviewer I even remotely trust when it comes to headphone technology.

Also remember, they probably paid a fraction of what you're going to pay for it -- reviewers get insider prices.

Like I said, just make sure you can return it.

Oh, and by that reasoning, you should get a Grace m902 -- probably the single most frequently used headphone amp as a reference in studios. Go ahead, ask over at gearslutz(.com).

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Reviewers don't usually pay at all.. and if they didn't have much to compare the b52 with, I wouldn't trust them. Manufacturers send them the gear on loan, but that doesn't mean they get the product back.

Biggie.

[n_maher]

Reviewers don't usually pay at all.. and if they didn't have much to compare the b52 with, I wouldn't trust them. Manufacturers send them the gear on loan, but that doesn't mean they get the product back.

I've heard stories of reviewers holding gear hostage and can't imagine how frustrating that must be for manufacturers. Don't sell product unless you loan gear out for review, send gear out for review and risk never getting it back. Reason number 643 not to become an electronics manufacturer.

[postjack]

I've heard stories of reviewers holding gear hostage and can't imagine how frustrating that must be for manufacturers. Don't sell product unless you loan gear out for review, send gear out for review and risk never getting it back. Reason number 643 not to become an electronics manufacturer.

dude let me borrow your beta22 for a review for my new forum plz. thx.