hungrych Posted July 5, 2007 Report Posted July 5, 2007 For crying out loud, stop bickering about it if neither of you have heard the amp the other is talking about! It's obvious that you'll have to hear both for yourself if you want to make a decision between SP and EC that you should try them both for yourself. Just don't buy anything directly from SP... unless you want to wait forever...
deepak Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Posted July 5, 2007 The ZD is very nice with the L3000, I own both. I don't have a secondary amp right now for comparison. Like someone already said the ZD complements the signature of the L3000, in fact I wondered for a while how people could describe the treble of the L3k as "rolled-off." Both extremes are extended, detailed/articulate with the ZD. I would steer clear of tube amps known for euphony and smooth treble if you are planning on using the L3k as your main headphone, would probably be too similar causing un-synergy... don't know what else to call it. I am thinking that a good solid-state amp would be best for them. Alas, I do not have one to test this assumption at the moment. Well said I don't find the treble on the L3000 recessed. I appreciate all the feedback (even though I've heard these arguments in a few other HC threads), whatever amp I decide on I'll more than likely hear first before buying. Or it will be something that's up at a really good price, knowing I won't have trouble selling it. From what I'm reading the Extreme should be a better value than the MPX3 SE, but these conclusions might be dangerous since it's info pieced together from different sources. IIRC I haven't read a MPX3 SE vs Extreme comparison. edit: oh man this MD meet sounds like fun. Let me see if I can make it happen, I'd like to meet a lot of you guys. DC/MD is only 6 hours drive.
humanflyz Posted July 6, 2007 Report Posted July 6, 2007 Yay! The L3000s shipped today, now for the excruciating wait
purk Posted July 6, 2007 Report Posted July 6, 2007 Yay! The L3000s shipped today, now for the excruciating wait Congrats. Let us know how you like them.
Nanoha Posted July 6, 2007 Report Posted July 6, 2007 Yay! The L3000s shipped today, now for the excruciating wait Sweet. It's a L3k mob here! Congrats. Let us know how you like them. Welcome to Head-Case purk!
postjack Posted July 6, 2007 Report Posted July 6, 2007 Yay! The L3000s shipped today, now for the excruciating wait fotm omg...
humanflyz Posted July 6, 2007 Report Posted July 6, 2007 fotm omg... Only in Head-Case can a $2k+ can become FOTM lol. But I saw a deal that I couldn't refuse.
purk Posted July 7, 2007 Report Posted July 7, 2007 Only in Head-Case can a $2k+ can become FOTM lol. But I saw a deal that I couldn't refuse. It is a better deal than the going rate for the HE90 though. One HE90 is on sale for 7900 USD right now on Audiogon.
deepak Posted July 9, 2007 Author Report Posted July 9, 2007 Yay! The L3000s shipped today, now for the excruciating wait Next week can't come sooner Hope you like them.
deepak Posted July 9, 2007 Author Report Posted July 9, 2007 I got my Senn HD580 last night and my friend's HD650 this morning. So I can offer some comparison between them and the L3000, in my opinion all three share a similar signature. I level matched them as closely as possible using my ears. Both Sennheisers are using their stock cables. The HD650 is sort of new, but has around 200+ hours on it. Not sure about my HD580 (used). Both the pads on them are pretty much like new so the drivers sit further away from the ears than pads that are crushed. HD580 vs HD650 This is the first time I've had both of them simultaneously and the two are remarkably similar. The HD650 has much better bass extension and a more laid back midrange. The highs on the HD580 stand out slightly more but they're very similar to the HD650. L3000 vs the Sennheisers The L3000 has a much more forward sound with a slightly smaller soundstage. The bass on the L3000 is similar to the HD650 (slightly more in volume throughout the sub/mid/upper bass) but it has much more weight, impact and slam (I suspect the closed nature of the headphones allows them to reproduce instruments like kick drums effortlessly). The L3000's bass is also more textured and palpable, and at least gives off the impression that it has faster attack. The L3000 extends lower than the HD650 (on a Bella Sonus test track the L3000 consistently hits the really, really low notes, while the HD650 is just almost able to produce their sounds). The midrange of the L3000 is more detailed, upfront and generally much more enjoying to me. Guitars, male and female singers sound incredibly real and very enjoyable. Electric guitars sound very lifelike. Guitar tones of various makes and amps all come off perfectly on the L3000, whereas the Senns tend to sound a bit generic. The L3000 does not exhibit an upper midrange recession like the Senns, thus people that hear the veil on the Senns probably won't hear anything like that on the ATs. High frequencies- this is where all share a similar signature. Extension on all three headphones is very good, all three are able to get to the 18 KHz range. The HF on the Senns is definitely more relaxed in respect to the rest of the spectrum which makes them fantastic for long term listening. The HF on the L3000 is also a bit more relaxed but not to the extent of the Senns. Imaging - a huge difference between the Senns and the L3000. In this respect the Senns just sound diffuse and hazy with instrument placement and air surrounding instruments. The L3000 is just razer sharp with where everything is and doesn't delineate into ambiguity.
humanflyz Posted July 9, 2007 Report Posted July 9, 2007 Very nice comparison, and I agree that the non-electrostat Senns just don't image very well on most amps. Man, I have to wait until Friday before my L3Ks get here.
postjack Posted July 9, 2007 Report Posted July 9, 2007 Imaging - a huge difference between the Senns and the L3000. In this respect the Senns just sound diffuse and hazy with instrument placement and air surrounding instruments. The L3000 is just razer sharp with where everything is and doesn't delineate into ambiguity. Thanks for sharing your impressions, all very well said. I am especially intrigued by the above quote. I know exactly what you are talking about with the HD650. Its like all the instruments are standing inside a big jello mold, that weaves and waves in time to my quavering hunger breath, craving the sweet, sweet pecans inside all the while. A not altogether unpleasant sound, mind you, just not focused and razorsharp like you are saying the L3000 is.
Dusty Chalk Posted July 9, 2007 Report Posted July 9, 2007 Are you sure about this? I don't find the high frequency extension of the headphones similar at all -- the L3000 just trounced the Senns. What amp are you using? What source? You should definitely compare them with a high-res source (high-rate PCM, DSD, or analog), and with an amp capable of reproducing those frequencies. I'm not saying you're not, but it would explain why we hear things differently, so I'm just grasping for an explanation.
deepak Posted July 9, 2007 Author Report Posted July 9, 2007 Are you sure about this? I don't find the high frequency extension of the headphones similar at all -- the L3000 just trounced the Senns. What amp are you using? What source? You should definitely compare them with a high-res source (high-rate PCM, DSD, or analog), and with an amp capable of reproducing those frequencies. I'm not saying you're not, but it would explain why we hear things differently, so I'm just grasping for an explanation. My source is the North Star M192 DAC, my amp is the Melos SHA-1 (using Amperex Orange Globe tubes). I own very few high res recordings (and frankly IMO the format is dead) so I never bothered to invest in it. My analog system is in the works. I plan on doing more comparisons, but from what I heard with redbook playback and using Audacity's test tone generator the HF extension on the Senns was good. Where do you feel they cut off? I've mentioned this in my last post but the treble on the L3000 is more forward than the Senns.
deepak Posted July 9, 2007 Author Report Posted July 9, 2007 Hmm, ok Dusty I think I agree with your findings. I just redid the test tone sweep with Audacity (rather than testing frequency breaks) and the HD580 definitely crashes right around 16 KHz then rolls off steeply from there. The L3000 extends much higher than that and doesn't roll off as abruptly. The HD650 is similar to the HD580, but the roll off is more gradual.
Dusty Chalk Posted July 9, 2007 Report Posted July 9, 2007 Yeah, that's what I was going to say -- it's not so much that they fall off, they're just more laid back, which would imply to me a gradual roll-off in the highs. The L3000's just plain have more high-frequency extension, and therefore more air there. It's like the difference between tight accurate yet overblown bass and tight accurate yet understated bass. In both cases, the bass is there, and good. (As opposed to some headphones where they're just completely missing, or where it's there but not tight and accurate.) Oh, and: the formats (I presume you mean DVD and SACD) are not dead, they've just fallen back to a niche market, where they should have been from the beginning.
deepak Posted July 10, 2007 Author Report Posted July 10, 2007 With some further listening to some jazz (assorted delicious selections of John Zorn, Oscar Peterson, Bill Evans and Charles Mingus) the bigger soundstage on the Senns makes for a more interesting listen for some of the live recordings. But when we come back to the overall big picture and the pinpoint imaging, the L3000 just does everything so well that they're the headphones I keep wanting to switch back to. For those wondering I bought the HD580 as my traveling headphones. They're perfect for that- cheap, user replaceable parts, detachable thin cable and well balanced sound.
humanflyz Posted July 10, 2007 Report Posted July 10, 2007 Anyone know if the L3000s can simply be re-terminated to balanced without having to do a re-cable to get the benefits?
postjack Posted July 10, 2007 Report Posted July 10, 2007 Anyone know if the L3000s can simply be re-terminated to balanced without having to do a re-cable to get the benefits? pretty much you need to get some and send them to me and i'll find out for you. i need to look at them in person though.
humanflyz Posted July 13, 2007 Report Posted July 13, 2007 ON VEHICLE FOR DELIVERY Goddamn I need to get out of work pronto
humanflyz Posted July 15, 2007 Report Posted July 15, 2007 I have been listening to them through my HeadAmp AE-2 sourced by my Creative Zen Vision M. They sound really nice, and the bass is very balanced.
humanflyz Posted July 16, 2007 Report Posted July 16, 2007 The L3000s' ability to gloss over inferior source materials has been greatly exaggerated: it is picking apart my mp3s and letting me know every single defect there is.
humanflyz Posted July 16, 2007 Report Posted July 16, 2007 Well I forgot who said it, but people say the L3000s sound great out of a DAP. Well sure, they do sound great, but I know they can sound infinitely better on my home system. I am still enjoying them very much: the sound is very balanced, and there is definitely none of that funky upper-midrange glare that the W5000s have, thank god.
humanflyz Posted July 16, 2007 Report Posted July 16, 2007 And they, along with my K1000 system, do instrumental timbre exceptionally.
purk Posted July 16, 2007 Report Posted July 16, 2007 Well I forgot who said it, but people say the L3000s sound great out of a DAP. Well sure, they do sound great, but I know they can sound infinitely better on my home system. I am still enjoying them very much: the sound is very balanced, and there is definitely none of that funky upper-midrange glare that the W5000s have, thank god. Yes, I did say that. Of course, I know full well that there are a defect but the L3000 is forgiving enough that everything still sound decent enough. The L3000 is the best unamped headphone out there in my opinion. Of course, when you give them major source and amp, they will scale up as well. Trust me, you can't listen to the R10 out of any portables.
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