Some advice about tubes/tube modes...

[TheSloth]

Hi everyone,

I'm about to enter the world of tubes. My Acoustic Zen's arrived, and I'm going to be powering them with one of these http://www.gini.com/index.php?id=250. I heard the combo at a local dealer and really fell in love with it.

Can someone explain me the difference between 'triode' operation and 'ultralinear' operation, and also recommend some really great tubes.

I'm a complete newbie in this field so go easy!

[aerius]

To broadly generalize.

Ultralinear: More power & dynamics, flatter & more extended frequency response.

Triode: More midrange goodness & better tone, but at the expense of the above.

I don't have much experience with 6SL7's or EL34's so I can't recommend those. For the 6SN7 I'd probably start with the GE 6SN7GTA, not to be confused with the GTB which looks the same but sounds a lot worse. The GE 'GTA is pretty neutral sounding and dynamic, though it's not the last word in detail & refinement. It gives a good starting point to play around with the other tubes, and once that's done you can explore the more exotic (read as "stupidly expensive") 6SN7 options. My favourite is the RCA grey glass 6SN7 for its full rich tone and large soundstage, but on some tube amps it'll make things too warm and mushy.

[TheSloth]

Ok, so when looking for these particular tubes, how does one know what one's getting? Where do you tend to buy tubes? I'm not going to start on Ebay as I'm going to end up with crap.

I'm told that good EL34's are generally not too expensive these days and supply is quite plentiful. Really looking forward to a nice tube setup - I also wonder how that integrated will do as a headphone amp...

[TheSloth]

To broadly generalize.

Ultralinear: More power & dynamics, flatter & more extended frequency response.

Triode: More midrange goodness & better tone, but at the expense of the above.

Thanks. Can you tell me what the technical difference is? i.e., what's actually changing when you flip the switch between the modes?

[TheSloth]

Btw, on the same website I linked above, these http://www.gini.com/index.php?id=speakers are insanely good sounding. Such a beautiful midrange - the LS3/5 is famous for certain tonal qualities obviously, but when I saw the price and description I thought 'cheap replica' and it's anything but. Heard it for a while at the NY show and frankly it produced some of the most beautiful music I heard there.

[Thelonious Monk]

i will more than likely end up with the tried and true ls3/5a design as my small bookshelf speaker eventually. have you heard any other ls3/5as? how does that one stand up too the more popular models?

[TheSloth]

i will more than likely end up with the tried and true ls3/5a design as my small bookshelf speaker eventually. have you heard any other ls3/5as? how does that one stand up too the more popular models?

I was talking to people who thought it was better. The drivers and crossover are brand new. They are of course based on the original design and very closely mimic their properties, but use more up to date materials and construction techniques. I have seen other branded clones going for over $1k.

What's insane is the sound you get for that price. Obviously they don't go that low, but no LS3/5 ever did. They look lovely, and are light and easy to move around. Overall, they are a great bargain, so smooth and easy to listen to, not at all hyperactive like so much stuff today.

I was quite surprised at the bass though - I honestly walked around the room round the back of the amps etc. looking for the subwoofer. A 4.5" cone in a sealed box? I did notice though that the cone seemed to have quite significant Xmax, at least from visual inspection so perhaps they were able to increase the cone excursion for better bass response.

[Dusty Chalk]

I miss my Spendor S3/5's (LS3/5a derivative). And these are a lot cheaper than the Stirlings. I just contacted the dealer about a special order (preliminarily).

I agree with everything you said, too. Those criticisms that you cited are criticisms of the LS3/5a, as well. They also don't go loud very well, either -- LS3/5a's were always designed for nearfield monitoring.

Which NY show, CES?

Back on topic -- if you want to start out slowly, try some new production tubes. I started a thread over at sh.tv about new production tubes, and got a lot of recommendations, here. Admittedly, the common wisdom is that NOS are better, but quite frankly, I wouldn't want to have to depend on that.

[TheSloth]

I miss my Spendor S3/5's (LS3/5a derivative). And these are a lot cheaper than the Stirlings. I just contacted the dealer about a special order (preliminarily).

I agree with everything you said, too. Those criticisms that you cited are criticisms of the LS3/5a, as well. They also don't go loud very well, either -- LS3/5a's were always designed for nearfield monitoring.

Which NY show, CES?

Back on topic -- if you want to start out slowly, try some new production tubes. I started a thread over at sh.tv about new production tubes, and got a lot of recommendations, here. Admittedly, the common wisdom is that NOS are better, but quite frankly, I wouldn't want to have to depend on that.

They were at the HE show last weekend.

I've heard there are some good current reissues of Mullard EL-34's and some others...

[aerius]

Thanks. Can you tell me what the technical difference is? i.e., what's actually changing when you flip the switch between the modes?

Here it is in rough schematic form, please excuse the lousy handwriting.

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

I use a dynamic headphone power amp with 4 el34's so I have a lot of experience with different el34's. The jj kt77 is by far the best all round tube. You can read more impressions of it on audioasylum. The el34 with the best tone is the sed 'winged c' 7ca7. Other el34's I have had in my system are svetlana el34, cryo valve art el34b, valve art el34b, siemens (rft) nos el34, new sensor mullard reissue el34 and grove tubes mullard el34m.

Biggie.

[TheSloth]

Here it is in rough schematic form, please excuse the lousy handwriting.

Excellent - could you perhaps explain that in terms an electrical layman might understand? Actually I'm not that electrically stupid, but I can't quite remember how to interpret that diagram...

[Nanoha]

I use a dynamic headphone power amp with 4 el34's so I have a lot of experience with different el34's. The jj kt77 is by far the best all round tube. You can read more impressions of it on audioasylum. The el34 with the best tone is the sed 'winged c' 7ca7. Other el34's I have had in my system are svetlana el34, cryo valve art el34b, valve art el34b, siemens (rft) nos el34, new sensor mullard reissue el34 and grove tubes mullard el34m.

Biggie.

Whoa, what amp is that? Custom?

[humanflyz]

I think it's a modded ASL amp, can't remember the name.

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Whoa, what amp is that? Custom?

Heavily modified asl aq1003-dt. Drives the heck out of grados.

Biggie.

[TheSloth]

I use a dynamic headphone power amp with 4 el34's so I have a lot of experience with different el34's. The jj kt77 is by far the best all round tube. You can read more impressions of it on audioasylum. The el34 with the best tone is the sed 'winged c' 7ca7. Other el34's I have had in my system are svetlana el34, cryo valve art el34b, valve art el34b, siemens (rft) nos el34, new sensor mullard reissue el34 and grove tubes mullard el34m.

Biggie.

That's a lot! I'm really going for the most neutral set of tubes. Neutral seems to be more and more subjective these days, but to me that means there shouldn't be any traces of harshness, which is achieved without roll off somewhere.

I was looking through some options for output tubes here: http://www.dougstubes.com/el34.htm?gclid=CK_p0_nspIwCFQhaZQod7w365w. I'm trying to understand what the variations in specs, temperatures and voltages etc. would or wouldn't mean for my amp? In general, do the variations mean that some will and won't work, or just that some might be a better match sonically?

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

The cryo valve art el34b were the most neutral el34's I have had in my rig. The mids and highs were similar to the nos siemens el34's I had, but the bass was better (taughtness, tone, detail). They are also decently priced: http://www.tubeman.com/item246.htm

I would still recommend the kt77's since they basically do everything better then the other el34's.

That link you supplied, all his descriptions are for use in guitar amps.

Biggie.