Not Tuned, Characterless, Boring To listen Speaker System

[Sechtdamon]

I'm looking for advices of you again.

I'm looking for stereo system components which reveals cables, records, even stands which they stands on. I want to call what I want characterless or boring to listen.

I want this system for A/B testing. And of course I'm on a budget like 6000 Dollars. I'm going to look for second hand components. and XLR is must.

The brands I've heard from people are;

PMC (I'm going to listen some of them in saturday) and ATC for speakers, Bryston for amplifier, and I'm looking for a studio dac (I think mytek has best price/performance ratio)

Do you have any ideas about any other brands? Any cheaper alternative to Bryston especially?

I hope I can deliver my thoughts properly.

Thanks for advices guys.

[Torpedo]

Have you considered studio self-amplified monitors like Dynaudio BM12A or 15A? They're in the same range of studio performance you may be looking for, but more affordable than ATC or PMC. For ultimate performance check Lipinski and KK Audio too. If you must have separate amplifier and passive loudspeakers, they have good products too, but it'll be more expensive. Krell and Pass is highly recommendable stuff but more expensive than Bryston  Depending on the power you need, there're plenty of brands making decent stuff at sensible prices.

For sources Mytek is OK, I like my DSD. Lavry and Benchmark are worth considering too.

[Dusty Chalk]

I’ll second the Dynaudio recommendation, the Esotar2 tweeters in my Special Twenty Five consumer speakers are second to none for upper frequency extension, and I believe they are available in some of their professional Minotaurs.

Well...maybe they are second to Focal’s Beryllium tweeters.  Which are also available in their professional monitors.

Good luck hearing the difference, though.  I still laugh at guys who claim they can hear directionality in wires.

[EdipisReks1]

A big pair of Genelec powered studio monitors would be high on my list.

[ironbut]

If you're looking for a pair of monitors to only do critical listening of other components in the system, I suggest giving a pair of Amphion One 18 with one of their matching amps a listen.

I did some mixing on a pair of these and while I'd never want to own a pair just for listening, they are audio microscopes.

They've been the FOTM for mix engineers for a year or two and the internet is packing with raves.

You can pick up a pair for around $3k USD and the matching amp is $1500 IIRC.

When you get into this realm, don't buy without hearing them!

Like I said, they were amazing to do a mix on but personally, I hate them.

http://www.amphion.fi/en/create/products/one18/

[Jon L]

19 hours ago, ironbut said:

If you're looking for a pair of monitors to only do critical listening of other components in the system, I suggest giving a pair of Amphion One 18 with one of their matching amps a listen.

I did some mixing on a pair of these and while I'd never want to own a pair just for listening, they are audio microscopes.

They've been the FOTM for mix engineers for a year or two and the internet is packing with raves.

You can pick up a pair for around $3k USD and the matching amp is $1500 IIRC.

When you get into this realm, don't buy without hearing them!

Like I said, they were amazing to do a mix on but personally, I hate them.

http://www.amphion.fi/en/create/products/one18/

Veerry interesting.  Amphion is one of my favorite home speaker brands, and I wonder how much their studio line sounds different from their home line, i.e. Argon 3.  

Edited December 22, 2017 by Jon L

[Torpedo]

14 hours ago, EdipisReks1 said:

A big pair of Genelec powered studio monitors would be high on my list.

IMHO the Genelec, while at a great price point, are a bit hotter (in the treble) than real so they may enhance brightness on some sources and recordings. ATC speakers have that bias too, but as stated before, it's just my humble opinion. I'm half deaf now

[iFi Audio]

6 hours ago, Jon L said:

Veerry interesting.  Argon is one of my favorite home speaker brands, and I wonder how much their studio line sounds different from their home line, i.e. Argon 3.  

It's probably similar microscope. 

[Sechtdamon]

I've listened pmc twenty.23... I still wonder how dynamic and punchy a speaker w/o woofer and so small.

However I didn't like benchmark 2 L. It has a character.

And I spotted a jewel at a hifi Store: ess heil motion 12. Newest ones... I'm going to listen them at tuesday with different atlas cables. Anyone has heard them before?

Anyway... Wish ne luck.

[Torpedo]

How can you be sure that its character is due to the source and not your liking or the amplifier or speakers, even the room? We're speaking of performance levels that being truly objective and fully aware of what's going on is very difficult, especially if assessing "true neutrality". I'm just playing devil's advocate, I'm not a big fan of Benchmark either, but pay attention to its bass output, it's as good as it gets.

Edited December 24, 2017 by Torpedo

[Sechtdamon]

6 hours ago, Torpedo said:

How can you be sure that its character is due to the source and not your liking or the amplifier or speakers, even the room? We're speaking of performance levels that being truly objective and fully aware of what's going on is very difficult, especially if assessing "true neutrality". I'm just playing devil's advocate, I'm not a big fan of Benchmark either, but pay attention to its bass output, it's as good as it gets.

I totally understand you Antonio. You want me to step/think accurately.

We used 3 speakers: Twenty.23 Twenty.24 and Ib1s. And 3 different DACs with computer (using foobar 2k with ripped waw files from cds' which we also tested from CD player) and roksan CD player benchmark dac2 L, spl director, and antelope zodiac premium. And one roksan integrated amplifier.

Benchmark made the all combinations sound similar on bass and treble regions. Slightly rolled off sub basses and tad bit digital upper regions. From CD player or computer.

We used spl director as dac. It has less dominant character, bass regions from different speakers are differed with it. It seemed it has less detail And seperation after benchmark but as i heard it's due to more body it can deliver. Also it sounded more analogue.

Zodiac was the best, at least from computer Via USB. Speakers' soundstage differances And bass performances (abilty to go deep And being dynamic wise differed most with it. 

I liked zodiac as DAC And Ib1s most, but they are out of my budget. And the performance difference between 23 and 24 was so little, so spending 1k more on 24 is, imho, pointless to me. And director can be used as preamp. So for price/performance wise 23 + director sounded best as I heard.

But I decided, before I decide, I want to change my house, move to a apartment with min. 30m2 room and want to listen quads with class a powers such as krell ksa, bryston or some pass amplifiers.

I mostly rush things and act/decide without proper thinking. But I want to be patient now. I might be misjudged quads.

[dsavitsk]

On 12/21/2017 at 4:11 PM, Sechtdamon said:

I want to call what I want characterless or boring to listen.

I want this system for A/B testing.

I think I'd look at the Tek 5 series MSO.

[RudeWolf]

How low do you want the system to go? It's surprisingly easy to find studio mains 2nd hand, because many large studios are closing down these days. Also what's room's gonna be like? There's no system brilliant enough to not be rendered mediocre by crappy room acoustics.

As for DAC's, I'd very much recommend the new RME ADI-2 Pro DAC. RME makes rock solid gear and ADI-2 Pro both versions finally add crazy good sound to that. And 5 band parametric EQ to fight room problems.

[iFi Audio]

On 28.12.2017 at 7:31 PM, RudeWolf said:

There's no system brilliant enough to not be rendered mediocre by crappy room acoustics.

This! Room treatment at times can be done for a fracture of the total system's value and it'll be heard loud and clear.