Dissonant Tones Sound Fine To Some People Not Raised on Western Music

[mypasswordis]

Manzoni putting shit in cans has nothing to do with Cage's piece? If you're saying Cage's 4'33" is shit, that's one thing, but they're totally different in conception (and implementation).

This is the inspiration for 4'33", quote taken from wiki:

" In 1951, Cage visited the anechoic chamber at Harvard University. An anechoic chamber is a room designed in such a way that the walls, ceiling and floor absorb all sounds made in the room, rather than reflecting them as echoes. Such a chamber is also externally sound-proofed. Cage entered the chamber expecting to hear silence, but he wrote later, "I heard two sounds, one high and one low. When I described them to the engineer in charge, he informed me that the high one was my nervous system in operation, the low one my blood in circulation."^[14] Cage had gone to a place where he expected total silence, and yet heard sound. "Until I die there will be sounds. And they will continue following my death. One need not fear about the future of music."^[15] The realization as he saw it of the impossibility of silence led to the composition of 4′33″. "

The above performance reduces the piece to some sort of odd slapstick comedy

[sorenb]

both an intellectual exercise that has little to do with art ... black or white isn't particular interesting, it's usually somewhere in between.
Somewhere in between order and disorder, consonance and dissonance.
Nothing is just nothing despite how much nothing you pour into it, it stays nothing

[mypasswordis]

You're missing the point as well....

The point is that even in seemingly absence of sound in an anechoic chamber, there is still sound being produced, even if it's from your own body. So nothing is never nothing. Whether you consider the sound of your nervous system, blood circulation, or heartbeat is consonant or dissonant is up to you.

[sorenb]

 

24 minutes ago, mypasswordis said:

You're missing the point as well....

I sure am.

[Dusty Chalk]

2 hours ago, sorenb said:

both an intellectual exercise that has little to do with art ... black or white isn't particular interesting, it's usually somewhere in between.
Somewhere in between order and disorder, consonance and dissonance.
Nothing is just nothing despite how much nothing you pour into it, it stays nothing

I think you're falling for the foible that a lot of people fall for when first introduced to the concept of the piece -- that it's a dadaist statement.  It isn't.  It's about the space between the notes taken to its logical extreme.  It's about ambient sounds that exist anywhere.  Not necessarily the audience, but if it were performed, for example, in a theater -- like one of those Fathom Events things -- the sound of the projector running, the air-conditioning, the occasional sneeze, cough, and throat-straightening, the sound of the movie next door, water running through adjacent pipes, alarms, horns and baby screams from outside -- all become a part of that particular performance.  It would still be in the spirit of Cage's intention.  

The metal band actually held up to it pretty good -- they even left in an accidental guitar pluck (yes, I watched the whole thing -- I wanted to know if they'd stay in character -- they did!).

[sorenb]

48 minutes ago, Dusty Chalk said:

I think you're falling for the foible that a lot of people fall for when first introduced to the concept of the piece -- that it's a dadaist statement.  It isn't.  It's about the space between the notes take to its logical extreme.  It's about ambient sounds that exist anywhere.  Not necessarily the audience, but if it were performed, for example, in a theater -- like one of those Fathom Events things -- the sound of the projector running, the air-conditioning, the occasional sneeze, cough, and throat-straightening, the sound of the movie next door, water running through adjacent pipes, alarms, horns and baby screams from outside -- all become a part of that particular performance.  It would still be in the spirit of Cage's intention.

not much "between" as it is only space, apart from the environmental sounds that might occur by random ... dada at least, has some aim to it
Though I fully agree, it's all in the spirit of Cage.

[Dusty Chalk]

22 minutes ago, sorenb said:

not much "between" as it is only space...

Hence "...taken to its logical extreme."  Imagine the "implied notes" between which this is the space as before and after the piece -- but don't in actuality exist, not even as a hypothetical.  They're more implied by the space that defines the "between" of them.

Oh, this has aim, it's just a different aim.  Dadaism to me, is absurdity for absurdity's sake, whereas this is making an artistic statement, just as Miles Davis' jazz of the late 70s did.

I'm actually less familiar with Cage's other work -- I am of the school of "isn't he the guy who did all that prepared piano shit?" (hadn't even seen the cactus video before the other day) -- so don't really get him, but I get this one piece.  Or at least I would like to think so.

[JimL]

On July 29, 2016 at 3:04 AM, sorenb said:

How I feel about Cage? well, apart from having played his 4'33" on the piano and transcribed it for guitar (not quite as challenging as I assumed), I haven't found much of interest from Cage ... probably a short comming of mine ;o)

The difficulty in performing that piece is that it sounds different every time.

[wink]

I wanna hear the version with a prominent backbeat..........      

[sorenb]

8 hours ago, Dusty Chalk said:

Dadaism to me, is absurdity for absurdity's sake, whereas this is making an artistic statement, just as Miles Davis' jazz of the late 70s did.

... an artistic statement similar to the "nothing" Miles Davis recorded in the late 70s ?

[Dusty Chalk]

Well, you know what I mean.  

[johnwmclean]

Cage's 4.33 reminds me of a pet rock I once owned.

[wink]

A musical rock - musta bin the precursor to Rock'n'roll. ( He rolled it down his driveway) 

 

If it had a high metallic content, it was heavy metal.......      

[wink]

Ornette Coleman and Pat Metheny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faEYubwK4KI&list=PLwy385NWW6lcviNKAqbYFwk3ayUkJss-E

 

 

 

Fred Frith and Tom Cora

 

 

John Cage Interview

 

Edited August 4, 2016 by wink