Sejsel spews about K701s and his opinions

[sejsel]

On 3/23/2016 at 4:39 PM, Craig Sawyers said:

 

Not perfect in sound quality by a stretch.  Excellent bass extension, but evidence of a midrange hump and recessed treble.  That was in a shootout with (old) Beyer DT990 and AKG K701 both owned since new.  All in all I rather prefer the DT990 in terms of overall balance - the K701 is just too bright, kind of the opposite problem of the PRO4AA.

 

But all in all, given the date I bought my original pair and what else was on the market at that time, I think I chose wisely with the old PRO4AA.

 

Regarding the K701, well, I happen to own them.

What might be regarded as interesting is that I use them to listen to EDM FM recordings (weekly). The resolution, plasticity, definition, tightness, nuances and the overall quality of the bass (if the bass is there in the recording, and it is very recording dependent - and recording are made by humans) the way it hits is, on the headphone amp I am using, with somewhat good source - breathtaking.

Senn HD600 have different qualities, and are more of a blunt tool so to speak, in comparison, although very often put in the same box together with the AKG K701.

Often neglected in reviews and opinions is how are these paired (and with what), burn-in time, as well as one small detail: the impulse response.

It is not my intention to divert this thread to the debate about these cans, just a small digression.

It's very easy to think of these as overly bright, lacking bass, etc.

Although a bit off the subject, I cannot escape thinking about numerous opinions citing Staxes as not suited for the EDM music or anything with bass emphasis...

... well, guess what - I happen to believe that for exactly EDM the soundstage, airiness and well defined, well articulated tight bass and precise response is really almost more important. 

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2016 by sejsel
typos

[sejsel]

duplicate post, removed.

Edited April 6, 2016 by sejsel
duplicate post

[Torpedo]

K701 suck. Period. No matter how much you spend on amplification or rewiring. It's not a matter of personal taste, it's a matter of distortion, fake spaciality and wrong frequency response. Even measurements demonstrate it: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK701.pdf

[Craig Sawyers]

I'm with you on that.  The DT990 (old version) is streets ahead of the K701 in neutrality.

[sejsel]

DT990 were described from many who own both them and K701 as inferior in (sic!) sound quality to K701, and this coming from people who are sound engineers,

working professional in that field.

Furthermore, I have had chance to test Philips Fidelio X1, praised by both innerfidelity and headphonia as far more fun headphone than K701.

Guess what, that headphone was by far the crappiest, muddiest headphone that doesn't even deserve to be mentioned as anywhere close to mid-fi. So, all those graphs

mentioned, it is really funny that in audiophile circles K7XX line is often regarded as somewhat of the... well... well known "secret" so to speak...

As for DT990 or any Beyerdynamic, I have never owned one or felt the need for much else after owning K701 for couple of years.

Funny, I had the correspondence with the guy owning Weiss D202 and Senns HD800.

He said that he doesn't give rat's ass to any subjective reviews of how thing sound, but only respects measurements.

He put K701 in well regard relative to HD800, talking about the measurements.

Speaking of graphs, where are HD600, in your opinion(s) put relative to K701, in that regard (graphs, fake freq. response, etc.).

I agree that measurements are not matter of opinion.

One thing sorely missed in that line of reasoning is how human hearing responds and relates to the subject of the measurements, and how closely CERTAIN measurements reflect all aspects of how we humans perceive sound quality of different cans.

An interesting view on that can be found at the one webpage where the guy who was working as an engineer for the US defence industry debates tube vs. solid state

amps and devices in relation to human hearing.

Even funnier thing was that his contemplations were started due to the dialog he had with his wife... who happen to be highly educated, and speech pedagogue (i believe) by profession. The subject of debate was the perception of the sound, indeed.

Comparing HD600 to K701 over the period of time, what struck me the most is (perceived) better articulation and separation and better scalability (equipment- and soundwise) of the AKGs.

As for the graphs per sei, I'm not buying into that line of thought fully neither.

Well trained and experienced ears are by far (when owner is cold and unbiased) far superior measuring equipment.

I believe that we are, with all our faults, able to perceive what by far exceeds (by number of parameters of different measurements) what is presented in the .pdf attached in one of the posts above.

The funny thing is that i had the chance (almost by accident) to listen to some recordings (from the same source) of the Daft Punk album from 2006 and some modern recordings (EDM) made this year.

It is incredible, soundwise, to witness the progress of the recording technology made in 10 years.

Almost anything engineered this year beats the crap (sound quality wise) out of the tracks of the DiscoVery album made in 2006.

K701 reveals that in almost eery fashion.

 

[skullguise]

That was kind of (TL) and I (DR)

[sejsel]

1 hour ago, Torpedo said:

K701 suck. Period. No matter how much you spend on amplification or rewiring. It's not a matter of personal taste, it's a matter of distortion, fake spaciality and wrong frequency response. Even measurements demonstrate it: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK701.pdf

Somehow, I'm having hard time believing that engineers developing (for some years) the K7XX line didn't make those measurements and seen those results, long time before the cans were finally released... which could lead me to believe that they could have known a bit more than what is presented in those graphs.

As or K701s, I guess the opinions on them will stay divided... as a side note, or paragraph, funny how it feels listening to the both digital and modern analogue recordings ,

how well they scale up and grow with today's recording technology, almost as if they were ahead of their time.

12 minutes ago, skullguise said:

That was kind of (TL) and I (DR)

Wouldn't mind the translation to English (or any other spoken, semitic language, for that matter).

[Iron_Dreamer]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TL;DR

[dcpoor]

To my ears the HD800 is a improved and "fixed" k701. Similar freq response and sound signature but better in all regards.

I use the K701's almost daily as beaters and on days with more available listening time I'll break out the HD800's.

I listen to the HD600 and HD650 on occasion for a change of pace.

[sejsel]

2 minutes ago, Iron_Dreamer said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TL;DR

Wish I pulled that one on any of my university exams...

 

7 minutes ago, dcpoor said:

To my ears the HD800 is a improved and "fixed" k701. Similar freq response and sound signature but better in all regards.

I use the K701's almost daily as beaters and on days with more available listening time I'll break out the HD800's.

I listen to the HD600 and HD650 on occasion for a change of pace.

Interesting, I have heard the same phrase about HD800  before...

What is also funny is that, according to some sources, K812 do not measure as good as HD800, yet many people swear (almost) that those fixed everything lacking (supposedly) in HD800.

The jump in the pricing that HD800 (if memory serves me well) initiated when they were released was probably one of the worst things (IMHO) that happened in the

audio-fi world.

This thread (the subject) is, even in all honest admiration of the thought of the no-bars-held approach by Sennheiser, the ultimate proof of the concept... one can only hope that the technology implemented will one day find the way to the market while reasonably priced... yet, seeing the spritzer's reflection on the quality of the amp design itself, well...

3 hours ago, Torpedo said:

K701 suck. Period. No matter how much you spend on amplification or rewiring. It's not a matter of personal taste, it's a matter of distortion, fake spaciality and wrong frequency response. Even measurements demonstrate it: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK701.pdf

 

17 minutes ago, dcpoor said:

To my ears the HD800 is a improved and "fixed" k701. Similar freq response and sound signature but better in all regards.

I use the K701's almost daily as beaters and on days with more available listening time I'll break out the HD800's.

I listen to the HD600 and HD650 on occasion for a change of pace.

Well, I guess, then

that HD800 must suck more than anything that has ever sucked before... (B&B)

 

 

[dcpoor]

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK701.pdf

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf

The HD800 has noticeably better bass and more realistic soundstage/imaging. The K701 has more upper mids which a lot of people find disagreeable.

Edited April 7, 2016 by dcpoor

[sejsel]

Just to make sure, I was merely ... well, mildly sarcastic when making comparison in suckiness...

I believe both cans are great when paired with good headphone amp. HD800, for the price, years of R&D, etc.

should better be improved version of almost any(thing) (dynamic can) that came before them...

[wink]

Beats > HE1   perhaps..?

[DefQon]

6 hours ago, mypasswordis said:

K501 > K701

 

QFT, the Q/K701/702 has always sounded artificial to these ears and the 501 and 601 are vastly superior imo.

[sejsel]

7 hours ago, DefQon said:

 

QFT, the Q/K701/702 has always sounded artificial to these ears and the 501 and 601 are vastly superior imo.

Opinions, of course, differ, I do respect actually that each has his own.

I can only quote a dissimilar one, then again, as I have said before, it could be in some cases down to the matter of personal preference...

 

quote:

"- K501 vs K701

There was no contest here. If this were like a real match-up, the K501 would be like Little Red Riding Hood scurrying away from the big bad K701 wolf. The K701 was simply better than the K501 in every single way possible - WAY better. There was no need to even critically listen for differences.

Oh that's not to say the K501 is miserable against the K701. It just sounds like a cheaper headphone against the might that is the K701. But when you take the K701 out of the equation, the K501's virtues are clear - a strong, defined treble that's slightly aggressive, with a very emphasized sparkle. And a forward lower treble."

 

 

Edited April 7, 2016 by sejsel
product link given in the quote of the original poster

[grawk]

I imagine one of the many other headphone forums might be a better place for you.  You care way too much about convincing people who aren't interested in what you're selling and who already have plenty of experience on which to base their opinions.  

[sejsel]

I imagine that (even if You are administrator on this forum) 

I am not "selling" anything to anyone here; furthermore the K701 is mid fi, well known entity since long ago, and far from the preference of the members here. 

I am not remotely interested in convincing (and not even remotely selling) anyone in anything here. If people are not interested in the fashion You are implying, well, then let them voice their opinion themselves, which they obviously do. What i wrote earlier about psychoacustical issues and human hearing, well, I can refer to that - if needed, but I suppose no one here is interested in that either.

More on the subject, I would be far more interested, instead of sort of bickering here, see some things happen in reality. The real deals instead of the talks.

I have read with some interest the vast amount of criticism of other products, issued loud and clear here at head-case, and I do believe that many of those points and details taken here (on the equipment (amps) shilled elsewhere, around the globe ) are technically sound and well founded. Which makes me wonder about the state of the industry as it is today... This thread is a good example of the proof of the concept, which, sadly is so pervertedly (i don't know if that word even exists) expensive that it deserves to be countered with something sounding at least as good and costing infinitely less.

How come the gripe here is about my small appearance, but not about that, in my opinion, important subject, in exactly this thread?

Other headphone sites are not gaining in popularity, not even in Europe (I happen to live there), since it is well known that they are sponsored sites and often used for the marketing of the products represented there. Not my words, but opinion voiced in other languages (than english) at other local head-related sites.

That other site(s) you mention - well, actually, I would hate to see that anyone here shares any of the traits present at such places... 

[grawk]

You're getting picked on because you're going on ad infinitum about a garbage headphone in a thread about something completely different, and no one gives a shit what you think about them, or why.  Read the forum a bit.  Then leave in a huff, find another forum, and post there about what douche bags we are.

[sejsel]

You sound bitter and abrasive, sorry to say this. ATHW whatever you list you've got is shit in comparison to K701, thank You very much.

If this is the way of administering the forum on your behalf, and greeting "new" members, then, well, clap clap, You have my applauses.

Move the posts or erase them, for all I could care. You complain about other sites, what is the principal difference between the way you act here, and them - you being more rude, direct, insulting and ignorant ? 

I'm picking now on You since you're going on about nothing relevant, (to this thread), but neglect to say anything about the question I posed here. On amps and this Oprheus stuff, while the crap being pushed hard is sold elsewhere. I am raising the same point as some well respected members here (gilmore, spritzer), so what's your problem ?

I have read the forum much more than you can imagine.

I don't have to go to another forum to post what douche bag you are trying to show you are, you are doing excellent job yourself on that here.

Leave bitterness to someone else, I have no time nor interest to go to sponsored forum(s) and complain about some insignificant - life consuming pleasantries here. I do not care for any person, especially that unpleasant (for no reason whatsoever apart from going up from bed on the wrong foot), nor do I care much more for any issues you have personally with any other headphone site, or cans, for that matter.

I am interested in technology and already have had correspondence with some members of this forum, who post frequently here, on (mildly) technical issues with amps.

If that is the tone and the attitude you choose to take (with anyone), again, for reasons best known to yourserf, well, you can get it back with some interest.

 

[Torpedo]

 You're interested in arguing at the wrong thread in the wrong forum way more than in technology.

[sejsel]

Oh, really... (?) 

Ask spritzer bout whos interested in what - I had some questions for him on amps, and he was at the time the world of difference to you and the rest of the 

"tribal community" here...  (sorry for dragging his name into this MUD), but... I mean, really ... 

No answer to questions I asked on the subject, still ?

[acidbasement]

Hey, guys! Guys! Guys? I have an opinion about headphones! Guys? Does anyone want to hear my opinion about headphones? I can also mention names of other people who have similar opinions! Guys?

[sejsel]

Lol... omg ...

Hey, girls, girls!

I can also mention names of people who have dissimilar opinions, and still get along with well! ... Girls ?

[eggil]

Grawk just told you why.

Read the name of this thread. It's not about the K701. Nobody in this thread care about that phone.

[sejsel]

2 hours ago, sejsel said:

I have read with some interest the vast amount of criticism of other products, issued loud and clear here at head-case, and I do believe that many of those points and details taken here (on the equipment (amps) shilled elsewhere, around the globe ) are technically sound and well founded. Which makes me wonder about the state of the industry as it is today... This thread is a good example of the proof of the concept, which, sadly is so pervertedly (i don't know if that word even exists) expensive that it deserves to be countered with something sounding at least as good and costing infinitely less.

this was exactly two hours ago.

Appreciate all the candid(ness) here, however, I fail to see how relevant all of that is to the subject of this thread. Most interesting posts here were those issuing the technical details on the orpheus, as well as criticism based on that.

More of that, please, can we agree on that and that, on my behalf

      I WILL SHUT THE FUCK UP about anything close to K701 ?