Voltron Posted February 19, 2015 Report Posted February 19, 2015 Vinnie has released his new modular amp/dac/phono stage/headphone amp device he calls LIO. I like Vinnie at shows but have never owned any Red Wine Audio gear. How does this thing look to the HC tech folks and critics? Discuss. http://vinnierossi.com/
spritzer Posted February 19, 2015 Report Posted February 19, 2015 Kevin and I have been laughing about this garbage for weeks now. His amps are up there with the biggest pieces of fail money can buy and this won't change that.
kevin gilmore Posted February 19, 2015 Report Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) as always the devil is in the details, so lets look at this 24V cheapass switcher power supply brick supplies power to the caps. And probably fills the chassis with high frequency hash. 2 banks of caps, one charges, the other supplies power to the unit. Now is this +/-12V, or is this +24V single with the amplifiers capacitively coupled outputs. In either case, headphone output power is pretty limited. How far in voltage does the cap sink before it switches. So the amplifier and the rest of the stuff continuously see's the equivalent of triangle waves on top of the power supply. How often does it switch banks. How well isolated is that switching, and is it audible. What about the fact that all of this is to get rid of power supply noise, and ultracapacitors are electrochemical, and have way more noise than either lead-acid batteries, or well designed power supplies. A solution looking for a problem that can be made to not exist in far cheaper ways. but it does seem to be fairly well built. Edited February 19, 2015 by kevin gilmore
Audiojunkie Posted February 19, 2015 Report Posted February 19, 2015 What...it's not a great unit to buy? I just bought 3 of them. I love how he can continue to take your $$$ later on as he releases "upgrades". The gift that keeps on giving....to Vinnie that is.
n_maher Posted February 19, 2015 Report Posted February 19, 2015 More first 2¢ is that I'd like to punch whomever keeps putting those goddamn locking Neutrik headphone jacks on everything. Fme I hate those things. They're ugly and a pain in the ass to use. 4
nikongod Posted February 19, 2015 Report Posted February 19, 2015 Everyone knows the lockers cost like 3 times as much as the non-locking ones. Cant be skimping out now... And besides, with all the power it takes to run headphones you might just blow the plug out of the socket if its not secured.
Leonardo Drummond Posted February 19, 2015 Report Posted February 19, 2015 A bit narcissistic as well, no?
dsavitsk Posted February 19, 2015 Report Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) I don't necessarily think a switcher is the end of the world. A) the noise can be filtered, and B ) the noise from rectifiers can be more of an issue. Whether this particular supply is any good, I have no idea. Aesthetically, it looks like it is frowning which seems like a poor marketing choice. Edited February 19, 2015 by dsavitsk
Hopstretch Posted February 19, 2015 Report Posted February 19, 2015 More first 2¢ is that I'd like to punch whomever keeps putting those goddamn locking Neutrik headphone jacks on everything. Fme I hate those things. They're ugly and a pain in the ass to use. I died a little when I saw one on the new Pass Labs headphone amp
kevin gilmore Posted February 19, 2015 Report Posted February 19, 2015 from pictures that have been posted elsewhere including bottom and top of the board, there is no protection on those caps. The manufacturer specifically states that if you put more than 2 in series (and Vinnie is putting 9 in series) you absolutely have to have 3V protection on each and every cap. Because somewhere past 3.1V the cap explodes. $500 in caps for absolutely nothing.
nopants Posted February 19, 2015 Report Posted February 19, 2015 pass is making a headphone amplifier? that thing looks like a tank
n_maher Posted February 19, 2015 Report Posted February 19, 2015 I died a little when I saw one on the new Pass Labs headphone amp Me too.
skullguise Posted February 19, 2015 Report Posted February 19, 2015 I like the concept, and I like Vinny himself. He was supposed to bring some LIO stuff to the December meet in NH but he got sick and had to bow out. But technically, if there are issues, that's not good. And, the pricing on most of his products is high, sets off my value alarms...... I had heard one of his amps previously at the store where the meet was held, it actually was the best amp there driving the Audeze LCD-2's; but again, pricey....
Salt Peanuts Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 I died a little when I saw one on the new Pass Labs headphone amp Just looked it up - the plug looks really out of place and ugly.
Voltron Posted February 20, 2015 Author Report Posted February 20, 2015 The giant knob -- settle down, Steve -- is awful as well, imo. 1
swt61 Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 But it locks in the basses, and big knobs are always far superior. 1
purk Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 3K for the bottom model and over 6.1k for the top = Pass!
n3rdling Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 ...but it has an Italian name in cursive on the front panel. That automatically means it's luxurious. 1
justin Posted February 20, 2015 Report Posted February 20, 2015 More first 2¢ is that I'd like to punch whomever keeps putting those goddamn locking Neutrik headphone jacks on everything. Fme I hate those things. They're ugly and a pain in the ass to use. Lock n LOAD LED?
jpelg Posted February 21, 2015 Report Posted February 21, 2015 I've never owned any of Vinnie's wares. However he has been a frequent supporter of the NY/CT meets where I've had the opportunity to listen to many of his products over the years. They have never offended, and often excelled. At the recent November meet in Stamford, he was showing the LIO, along with his modded Sony HAP-S1 player, using a pair of HifiMAN HE-560 headphones. It was a total pleasure to listen to. Smooth, lacking any evidence of grain yet with plenty of detail. As transparent a headphone-audio experience as I've heard. Although I did not listen to too much other gear that day, Vinnie's setup sounded far superior than: - HifiMAN HM901->HifiMAN EF-6->HifiMAN HE-560 or HE-400i - AK240->Chord Hugo->Inspire IHA-1-AKG K812 - unknown PC-based source->Mjolnir Audio KGSS->Stax SR009 all of which cost at least as much, if not far more than the LIO-based system. How much of that experience had to do with the modded Sony player vs. the LIO powering the headphones, I couldn't say. I guess the value of any audio product above $1k can always be questioned. But Vinnie's products are not anywhere near the stratosphere of the industry. The modular nature of the LIO can be seen as a hedge against obsolescence & permits easy servicing. Also, having so much functionality in one box eliminates the need for expensive interconnects, upping the value proposition I'd think. While I am far from being capable of discussing (or debating) the technical details, all of this seems to make some logical sense. And it bears out in the sonics of what I've heard myself. The build quality of his products is very good & clean. His designs have not put anyone in remotely any danger (to my knowledge). And his customer service has never been called into question (again, to my knowledge). While I am not a fan of ALO, and Vinnie's past association with Ken always perplexed me (not sure where that relationship stands atm). But if Rossi's products fit into a system I wished to put together, and I had the "scratch", I don't think I'd regret pulling the trigger. At the very least, they warrant a listen.
aardvark baguette Posted February 21, 2015 Report Posted February 21, 2015 dont know about the pass, but the big knob is the pass look now. people like things that match.
spritzer Posted February 21, 2015 Report Posted February 21, 2015 The pass amp is probably just an uprated version of the their preamps but one can hope they do something more robust. As for the Rossi crap, the actual amplifier in these is just some cheap chip amp garbage. Think RSA Darkstar but even worse.
dsavitsk Posted February 21, 2015 Report Posted February 21, 2015 Also, having so much functionality in one box eliminates the need for expensive interconnects, upping the value proposition I'd think. There are still things connected together. Why would bringing the wires outside the box for a moment change whether or not the electrons want to be pampered by Techflex? 1
swt61 Posted February 21, 2015 Report Posted February 21, 2015 I have to agree with Doug. I personally prefer separates, and if a unit malfunctions it can be replaced individually. That's not to say that all combo type units are necessarily a bad thing.
Voltron Posted February 21, 2015 Author Report Posted February 21, 2015 Ah, but with LIO you can simply pull out a defective or outdated module and replace it. [emoji48]
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