Integrated amplifiers with headphone outs

[Nanoha]

Does anyone know of a decent integrated speaker amp that also has a nicely built headphone out? I think the Cary integrated amps may be an example of this, but I was wondering if there were any other choices. Around $1.5k max is a probable budget though I'm trying to stay under $1k used. Thanks for the help guys!

[grawk]

I know of a balanced amp in that ballpark...tho I haven't picked it up yet

My m3...

[recstar24]

You can sit tight for either a used Moth S/Si2a3 or a Cary 300B. That's about it I think. There is the new 300b woo but that is looking at 3000.

[Nanoha]

The Moths and Carys are indeed quite nice looking. Thinking about it, $1.5k is still a lot to spend. Though I'm sure they're pretty good for the price at around $1.5k used.

Speaking of a M^3 or B22 built for speaker amplification, hmmm... that might be worth it. But I've been taken in by tubes and apprehensive about looking back at solid state.

[recstar24]

The Moths and Carys are indeed quite nice looking. Thinking about it, $1.5k is still a lot to spend. Though I'm sure they're pretty good for the price at around $1.5k used.

Speaking of a M^3 or B22 built for speaker amplification, hmmm... that might be worth it. But I've been taken in by tubes and apprehensive about looking back at solid state.

For sure, but going used does save you tons of money. My Moth S2A3 retailed at $3450 but I was able to get it for you max budget price. Do you have high efficiency speakers too? When I factor in the price I got it used and that it is my preamp, speaker amp, and headphone amp all in one, that is like breaking it down $500 for each component, which I feel is a pretty good deal.

[recstar24]

Just researched and found out about another company - Leben Hi-Fi, based in Japan. It is owned by a man who used to work for Luxman, which made some very nice integrateds that also had a pretty good headphone out last time I heard it.

http://www.leben-hifi.com/introduction.htm

The models that would make the most sense are the 300 and 300x. EL84 output tubes in push pull config, custom made output transformers, the headphone jack runs straight from the transformer taps. Left Right balance control, bass boost circuit, high quality parts, excellent build quality, yowsers.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/leben2/system.html

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/leben/cs300x.html

Two reviews on Leben integrateds from my fellow 6moons writers. Paul with the 300x actually listened to it on cans and states that it is nice, I will contact him to get more specific details. The 600 is more powerful and expensive, so is probably not an option, but the review does state that word on the grapevine is that the headphone out is kickass.

Pretty underground and rare stuff, just thought I would throw it out there.

Another cheap option would be to get a vintage used Luxman, I forgot the model #, but they have an integrated with built in phono stage and a headphone out. I listened to it at the Chicago meet Jan 2005, with grado sr225's and hooked up to a vpi scout listening to brubeck's time out, and that memory still sticks in my mind as one of my most memorable listening experiences.

[granodemostasa]

That cary 300sei on the Head-fi FS forum is a real steal... even if it's a bit too much right, i think it would be worth it to go for it.

[recstar24]

That cary 300sei on the Head-fi FS forum is a real steal... even if it's a bit too much right, i think it would be worth it to go for it.

I agree, however I had read and researched various build quality problems with the cary's. Hum and noise has been somewhat of an issue on some models. Other Cary's have a 240 ohm resistor on the outputs which eliminates the hum and noise, but into the grados has a rubbery loose bass, as the result of zero damping factor due to the high output impedance. Some Cary's don't have the output resistor yet are susceptible to hum and noise. In general, there might be various build quality and tolerance variation issues that make each cary 300 sei different from each other, YMMV. Before I got the moth, I was pretty set on picking up a cary integrated, whether it be 2a3 or 300b, but after reading all the various accounts of model variance and the lack of damping factor into grados with the 240 ohm output, as well as all the accounts that the cary is bested in terms of hum and noise by other models like the moth, Fi, bottlehead, etc. with speakers, I opted not to.

[Grand Enigma]

The Portal Panache is a nice option for a good class A/AB integrated amp with headphone jack

[Nanoha]

Thanks for the all help everyone. I'm going to have to spend some serious time looking at all the various options. Haha, there are just so many.

Btw, is there such a thing as a device that hooks up to power amp outs but suppresses the power down to headphone levels? Or is that absolutely unfeasible and ridiculous due to technicalities that I'm not knowledgeable about? (Impedance? I don't know.)

[recstar24]

Thanks for the all help everyone. I'm going to have to spend some serious time looking at all the various options. Haha, there are just so many.

Btw, is there such a thing as a device that hooks up to power amp outs but suppresses the power down to headphone levels? Or is that absolutely unfeasible and ridiculous due to technicalities that I'm not knowledgeable about? (Impedance? I don't know.)

Pretty feasible, there are a couple of different ways to create a headphone buffer of sorts that can run straight from a power amp. Easiest is to DIY a cable that has resistors in place which will present the appropriate load to the power amp when its hooked up to headphones. Couldn't tell you the exact numbers, there are plenty of people out there though that could snap one up in a second.

[deepak]

[Nanoha]

Ah ha. Thanks Recstar and jPak. So that is another possible solution.

I'm thinking that my total budget is stuck at $1k currently. (I might be able to upgrade later in the year, not sure.) Perhaps there may also be the solution of using my current PPX3 SLAM as a preamp and then connecting it to an inexpensive poweramp? I'm not sure whether this would be a more cost effective solution ($300 to $400 for a used poweramp versus $1000 for an integrated). By the way, am I fine to assume that the headphone jack of my PPX3 SLAM can serve as a preamp out if I have the correct cables?

[recstar24]

Ah ha. Thanks Recstar and jPak. So that is another possible solution.

I'm thinking that my total budget is stuck at $1k currently. (I might be able to upgrade later in the year, not sure.) Perhaps there may also be the solution of using my current PPX3 SLAM as a preamp and then connecting it to an inexpensive poweramp? I'm not sure whether this would be a more cost effective solution ($300 to $400 for a used poweramp versus $1000 for an integrated). By the way, am I fine to assume that the headphone jack of my PPX3 SLAM can serve as a preamp out if I have the correct cables?

Most headphone amps are great preamps, even if you use an adaptor to run it from the headphone out. No need to build or buy a special cable, just go to radioshack and buy a 1/4 stereo plug to RCA adaptor (make sure the 1/4 plug is stereo, and not mono!). I used my EC/SS as a preamp with a cheap SS poweramp on loan before the moth came using that adaptor and my normal rca ic's, and the sound was fantastic. Most headphone amps have low output impedance, good current and voltage drive, and are low noise, which are great attributes for a good sounding preamp.

Do you think you could clarify a bit more what you are trying to accomplish with your rig? What kind of speakers are you using? Do you want simplicity, a single box to do it all, or are separates okay? we could probably help you further if you were able to provide some more info on the direction that you want go in.

[Nanoha]

Do you think you could clarify a bit more what you are trying to accomplish with your rig? What kind of speakers are you using? Do you want simplicity, a single box to do it all, or are separates okay? we could probably help you further if you were able to provide some more info on the direction that you want go in.

Of course, sorry about the missing details. So unfortunately I don't know what speakers I will be using, but I'm thinking my power requirements are going to be around 50W? (guessing), 8 ohm load. I can totally settle for separate boxes if that is a more cost effective solution. In reality, I'm just looking for an inexpensive solution where I can listen to headphones or speakers depending on the mood. I currently have a PPX3 Slam, and can only afford to spend about $300 to $400 on top of the value of the PPX3 (~$650) as of right now. I can attach/detach cables whenever required, so simplicity is not necessary. Perhaps my most imminent goal is to drive my Stax headphones (currently without an amplifier) with a energizer/transformer box (they attach to speaker outs). Supposedly that will require around 35 to 40W, 8 ohm according to what others are telling me.

[humanflyz]

If you want a simple system (consisting of a source, headphone amp/pre-amp, and power-amp), have you checked out the Stello stack?

The stack is a three-piece system:

1) Stello DA100: Upsampling DAC with USB input

I have the Stello DP220, which uses the Stello DA200 for its DAC section. I've heard from respectable sources (Iron_Dreamer in particular) that the single-ended analog output sounds pretty much the same. If that is the case, then the Stello DA100 is going to be a pretty nice source.

2) Stello HP100

I've heard this one: it's a pretty good SS headphone amp: had no trouble driving regular headphones with two gain-switches. It is a decent pre-amp: two inputs and a pre-amp out.

3) Stello S100:

50W per channel power-amp. Never heard this one, but judging from other Stello products, this should be a pretty decent, no-nonsense product with good build quality.

And of course, you can bet that this stack will have synergy, since they were designed to be used together. It might stretch your budget, but you should get a pretty decent-to-good stack that doesn't take up too much space, has pretty convenient features, and transportable. Check out their website: HiFi500.com

[humanflyz]

Oh btw, I'm not a particular Stello fanboy, but all the products that I have heard from them makes me respect them as a company: it's all no-frills, well thought-out, no-nonsense products that perform well. They just seem like a sensible company whose product line-up makes sense, and the build quality is top-notch.

[Dusty Chalk]

Btw, is there such a thing as a device that hooks up to power amp outs but suppresses the power down to headphone levels? Or is that absolutely unfeasible and ridiculous due to technicalities that I'm not knowledgeable about? (Impedance? I don't know.)

There's also a product by ASL called...um...I forget...I have one...somewhere...

[hungrych]

I'm curious as to how headphones sound with power amps with something like that. Anybody ever tried it?

[Nanoha]

Yeah, I had considered the Stello stack (excluding poweramp) when I was looking for a DAC/headamp last year. I currently don't have the money to buy a DAC (if I did, I would have the DA10, or if I had more, a DA220 ), but I'm pretty happy with my Singlepower as a headamp and possible implementation as a preamp. The Stello S100 looks somewhat interesting, but I'm not sure if that'll be the best bet.

If all fails, I guess I may have to resort to buying a cheapo used poweramp for the moment and maybe build a Pass Lab poweramp sometime late this year. Bleh?

[humanflyz]

I'm curious as to how headphones sound with power amps with something like that. Anybody ever tried it?

I think someone on Head-Fi wrote something a looonngg time ago when he used the ASL transformer-box. You'd have to dig it up, because I'm lazy. I think the product is called ASL UHC-1? Or something like that

[Dusty Chalk]

Yeah, we tried it -- it's a mixed bag, and it's not a one-to-one correlation with the amp. Some amps just don't work well with it, some do. Some of the best sound I ever heard with a HD600 was with a Krell KAV-300i (?nomenclature) through the ASL thingy. Some of the worst was with a Jolida JD102B (bass was insane). In real life (I.E. with speakers), I prefered the Jolida enough to keep it, got rid of the Krell.

UHC-1 -- yeah, that sounds right.

[deepak]

Of course, sorry about the missing details. So unfortunately I don't know what speakers I will be using, but I'm thinking my power requirements are going to be around 50W? (guessing), 8 ohm load. I can totally settle for separate boxes if that is a more cost effective solution. In reality, I'm just looking for an inexpensive solution where I can listen to headphones or speakers depending on the mood. I currently have a PPX3 Slam, and can only afford to spend about $300 to $400 on top of the value of the PPX3 (~$650) as of right now. I can attach/detach cables whenever required, so simplicity is not necessary. Perhaps my most imminent goal is to drive my Stax headphones (currently without an amplifier) with a energizer/transformer box (they attach to speaker outs). Supposedly that will require around 35 to 40W, 8 ohm according to what others are telling me.

You'll need a hell of a power amp if you want to use Stax/transformer box/amp. Otherwise the bass is going to be severely rolled off and lacking in punch. Unless you have said power amp I think the Stax amps/KGSS would be a much better value.

[Nanoha]

You'll need a hell of a power amp if you want to use Stax/transformer box/amp. Otherwise the bass is going to be severely rolled off and lacking in punch. Unless you have said power amp I think the Stax amps/KGSS would be a much better value.

Eeks. Any thoughts on the valaues?

[deepak]

Eeks. Any thoughts on the valaues?

You'll probably get more answers in the Stax thread. But the amps that I heard were integrateds (~10-20 watt) with lambda pros and sr-404 and they didn't sound very good at all.