Need Help Finding Speakers

[dsavitsk]

I am in the market for a set of speakers. I have very quickly become overwhelmed and could use suggestions.

 

The room these will go in is ~14' x 31' with 9 foot ceilings. It is open to a room that is 14' x 20', so effectively the room is 14' x 51'. For various reasons, they probably need to be placed along the short wall, That wall has windows over most of it, and a large radiator under the window. This means that the speakers cannot be closer than about 18" to the wall. Additionally, the corners are not accessible, so corner horns won't work.

 

I plan on driving these with a push-pull 300B tube amp (~30W Class A). These amps can drive about anything (they are not SETs) but flatter impedance is certainly better. However, I also have 100W sand amps to use if need be. I don't generally listen particularly loudly, so hitting 90db is all I'll really need most of the time.

 

Music wise, I grew up listening to punk rock, and now listen mostly to music created by other people who grew up listening to the same, or similar. So Will Oldham, Cat Power, Sonic Youth, VUs. Classical and Jazz are not a concern apart from  occasional piano music.

 

I am also not concerned with reproducing reality in my living room. I am a post modernist, so ruler flat I don't care about. Clarity, warmth, and presence I do. Imaging I can take or leave. I am unlikely to try to sit in the sweet spot and instead tend to be milling around while listening to speakers. If I wanted to sit still, I'd put on phones.

 

Used is much preferred to new. Budget is whatever it needs to be, but if I can stick around $3500 I'd be happy. I'll go higher for the right speaker. My preference is to buy something and keep it for 20 years. I almost bought some used B&W matrix 802s and consider them an OK option. The pair happened to have a driver issue which was a deal breaker. I seem to like old B&Ws, but dislike anything since the switch to Nautilus. I also historically like Dynaudio, though they get a little spendy in the size I'll need. Other name that seems to keep popping up is ATC but I am unsure where to give them a listen, or if I can get a pair in my budget.

 

Appearance matters. The B&Ws are horribly ugly, but were so much under my budget I was willing to live with it. Generally, the more understated the better. These are ugly. These are better.

 

Finally, grill cloth will get destroyed by Thursten, so less cloth, and drivers that are far from the ground is a good thing.

[Voltron]

I tend to think anything but TOTL B&W stuff is too beamy and doesn't create warmth and enveloping realism, but that goes back aways.

 

In addition to passive ATCs, which I think you would like a lot, I think you should check out DeVore speakers.  There are some on Audiogon right now that are below, just above and way above your price range, but there will be others out there as well.  The aesthetic and cat-friendliness is right and the sound is great.  

[postjack]

Could also ask Ric how he's enjoying his Zu speakers. They are efficient and seem to share the same musical reproduction philosophy you do. Plus they look snazzy.

[Dusty Chalk]

Did you check under the couch?

[HeadphoneAddict]

I'd consider the Harbeth P3ESR which would come in under budget, so you could use the left over money for speaker stands or other necessities...  I really liked them at RMAF last year, and thought they were much better than an Zu speakers except for less bass extension, but they sounded great without a subwoofer. The imaging and transparency was great, as was micro-detail and tone.  I figure you'll hit 90 dB at 1m with about 4 watts of power, so you'll need all 30 watts to get to that level at the farthest end of the room. Just a thought.

[RudeWolf]

Build a pair of these.

[dsavitsk]

I think you should check out DeVore speakers.

 

I like those -- heard them in NYC a few years ago. But the ones I like are likely not the ones I can afford.

 

Though this one is tempting ...

 

 

I'd consider the Harbeth P3ESR

 

Clearly too small, but the SHL5 has me intrigued, seems to tick all the boxes, and has the distinct advantage of looking like a speaker should to me. It might just be the one.

 

 

Build a pair of these.

 

No.

Edited November 10, 2014 by dsavitsk

[guzziguy]

Doug, I have a kit to build the Doc Bottlehead Straight-8 speakers.  I'd have to check to verify that all the pieces are still there.  I did put a dimple in one tweeter with my thumb but believe there are ways to pull it out.  I'd be happy to send it to you if you pay the cost of shipping.  It's damn heavy so shipping won't be cheap, but it would be a lot less than $3K.

 

I also have some enclosures built and would be happy to send them too, but shipping would be really expensive for them.  They are made of HDF (heavy density fiberboard) and weigh a ton.  The enclosures have rosewood trim and eucalyptus veneer, but the veneer has dried and would, imo, need to be removed and replaced.

[recstar24]

Doug,

That devore picture, where is that from? I cannot stop laughing at the dresser cabinet, I have never seen someone label their dresser with the appropriate clothing.

[dsavitsk]

http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649131124-devore_gibbon_8/

[blessingx]

Could also ask Ric how he's enjoying his Zu speakers. They are efficient and seem to share the same musical reproduction philosophy you do. Plus they look snazzy.

Enjoying them a ton (and yes, they hit on the above required traits, and your bands are in sync with Sean's playlists), and although I listened to a lot of speakers before pulling the trigger on the KEFs, then Zus, they were all at a lower price point (especially used) then Doug is looking. There was a Zu Omen MK.II introduction sale, but unfortunately that ended (and started) last week. The KEF R700s are killer, but depends if you want a big sound, how you feel about crossovers, and how efficient is efficient. Add me as a fan of the upper Harbeths.

Also for whatever it's worth I had big fears of Esmé destroying the drivers/cloth grills and after talking with a couple people who had similar fears at earlier points in their lives, so far we've all had zero problems. Course Vandersteen-like covers may be different.

EDIT: Plenty of places have good return policies, but will just say the "pre-loved" Zus (sometimes used, sometimes new cabinets/used drivers, sometimes just on sale) have their normal 60-day return (free-shipping) policy and they've been rotating models there in batches. May be worth keeping on eye on if you don't find something else sooner.

Edited November 10, 2014 by blessingx

[FrankCooter]

Doug, I hear you about the Dynaudios.

 

The best small speaker I ever built was a simple two-way based on the 21w54 woofer .Absolutely the best 8" woofer I ever heard. Simple 2nd order crossover and some Dynaudio tweeter I've forgotten the model number of. Quite efficient, but had some real balls. Ran just fine off a small push-pull 6V6 amp.

 

So unless things have changed a lot in the speaker world in the last couple of decades I'd be looking hard at the Dynaudios. 

 

You might want to consider vintage JBL's, Tannoy's, Altecs, or Klipsch. If you do it right it's actually a profitable investment. A few years ago I had a pair of Klipsch "Belles" ( furniture grade LaScalas). I bought them cheap because of some fairly minor cosmetic issues. I refinished the cabinets, used them for a year or so ( my listening room wasn't really big enough to take advantage of them), and then sold them on Ebay for substantially more than what I paid for them.

 

Another alternative is your own cabinets filled with TAD components. You won't lose money here either.

 

I don't own any speakers at the moment, ( kind of done with the horn thing)  but I'm beginning to think about some vintage high-end JBL's or Tannoy's.

[HeadphoneAddict]

Clearly too small, but the SHL5 has me intrigued, seems to tick all the boxes, and has the distinct advantage of looking like a speaker should to me. It might just be the one.

I was just trying to keep it in your budget & the Harbeths you suggest are almost double that. But the Super HL5 plus do make more sense in a large room.

The Zu speakers that were suggested are quite efficient, I just didn't think that they were very refined sounding. Subtle would not be how I would describe their sound signature. But for rock music they might be an excellent choice.

[aardvark baguette]

i haven't heard the small ATCs but assuming the 'house sound' is consistent, i'm not sure they are what you're looking for.

it doesnt sound like you're seeking a 'monitor' 

 

although i remember Dusty said the tweeters on his Dynaudios were similar to what he heard on my ATCs, I think he still preferred the Dynaudio tweeter (not sure which one)

Edited November 11, 2014 by aardvark baguette

[luvdunhill]

Course Vandersteen-like covers may be different.

That's why they make the Quatro wood. Easily one of the best speakers I have ever heard and one of the few that has "engineering" that is worth paying for. Edited November 11, 2014 by luvdunhill

[Dusty Chalk]

although i remember Dusty said the tweeters on his Dynaudios were similar to what he heard on my ATCs, I think he still preferred the Dynaudio tweeter (not sure which one)

Esotar2, and yes, they are still as delightful as always.  (My speakers are the Special Twenty-Fives, but they're not exactly efficient..."power hungry" comes to mind, which is why I drive them with a Musical Fidelity A300^CR.)

[morphsci]

I miss my A300CR.

[skullguise]

Lovely Gibbon Super 8's on Audio Asylum

 

So Cal location so shipping will be pricey, but only $2550

[recstar24]

Quality wood man. Birds eye maple, ebony, not cheap.

[minimus]

I have to say I did not like DeVore all that much when I heard them at Sound By Singer about 6 years ago. I found them to be a bit lean and fatiguing, even with tube amps. (But the store had a somewhat hostile atmosphere, which didn't help matters.) Sehring monitors carried by TTVJ I heard the same day were much better sounding and less expensive.

Other efficient and/or easy-to-drive speakers I have heard that I have liked are Coincidents, either Total Victory or Super Victory (the US distributor is across town from me) and Audio Physic Virgos, which I heard at Sound by Singer.

If you had room for a big speaker, the Acoustic Zen Crescendo is really nice, although it is likely still above your budget on the used market. It sounds great, but is a behemoth.

All of these speakers would not get lost in your room, which is large.

[eugenius]

If diy is not out of the picture, a two way genelec style floorstander with beyma 12p80nd midwoofer and waveguided seas t35 tweeter is what I'd go for.

[dsavitsk]

Some of the older big Thiels can be had for amazingly cheap. I really have never liked them, though. They just don't sound good to my ear.

 

However, I did buy some Harbeth SHL5's. They were a bit out of my initial budget, especially considering the overpriced stands they needed, but I like them very much. Not only do they look the part, but they sound great from everywhere in the room. I am powering them with an Adcom power amp I picked up off of eBay for about $120, and the sound is pretty spectacular. I had been planning to build super fancy power amps for them, but I am not sure I can see the point now.

 

 

[recstar24]

Harbeth! The real deal. Nice score Doug.

[Voltron]

Sweet Harbeths Doug! Enjoy!

[jvlgato]

Nice, Doug!