New HiFiMAN headphones

[complin]

It should not just be new for the sake of being new. This is a typical kicker used by manufacturers to repackage old stuff with a facelift and try to con us it really is something new.

At least the HD800 was an innovation and was something truly new  

 

 

I am also interested to see what is new, but I don't necessarily expect better.  

 

Does Kaizen need to affect the finished product to apply? It sounds like it is being applied well if you have a consistent product, and you just improve your worker's lives a bit by upgrading their chairs or doing something else that is not necessarily obvious to the end user. 

[Riotvan]

Looks like they fixed the skullcrushing headband but i bet they're keeping the shitty pads so they have something to sell for the next model, i have learned my lesson with the he-500.

[DefQon]

Instantly reminded me of my Gamma's.

 

We need more e-stat's on the market than planars. Actually no, let me correct myself we need more less expensive but very good sounding headphones. 

 

Where is the Jade v2.0 that they've been prototyping all this time?

Edited January 14, 2014 by DefQon

[spritzer]

I truly don't get the interest on HF over the new Jade.  Just look at the prototype, they are still doing the same old stupid shit (no Stax plug for instance) and we all know it will be very, very expensive.  No leather pads which makes no sense at all. 

 

Now I'm the last person to defend the King Sound lineup but at least their headphone sounded better than the Jade stock and was 500$.  They also managed to make proper cables and the whole assembly is solid enough.  They are also replacing all the H1's for H2's free of charge.  Still I'd rather have a 207... 

[Leonardo Drummond]

Where is the info on it? I read from Tyll on IF but can't seem to find any more info about it.

[DefQon]

I truly don't get the interest on HF over the new Jade.  Just look at the prototype, they are still doing the same old stupid shit (no Stax plug for instance) and we all know it will be very, very expensive.  No leather pads which makes no sense at all. 

 

Now I'm the last person to defend the King Sound lineup but at least their headphone sounded better than the Jade stock and was 500$.  They also managed to make proper cables and the whole assembly is solid enough.  They are also replacing all the H1's for H2's free of charge.  Still I'd rather have a 207... 

For me at least I sort like the look of the original Jade having a bit of resemblance to the HE90, haven't heard the KS or Jade though but read the horror stories on them dealing with reliability and extremely poor construction where some units broke on first listen. 

 

More e-stat's in the market means competition for Stax which we might see lesser expensive models be it a new flagship or an entry level, but I can't see this happening soon unless Sennheiser or Koss or maybe even Sony got together and released something crazily good since these are the only few companies around still with experience in the e-stat field.

Where is the info on it? I read from Tyll on IF but can't seem to find any more info about it.

 

There is a poll thread started by purrin dating back to last year to encourage Hifiman to bring out another Jade successor, there's bits of pieces of information (credibility unknown) here and there in the thread to do with the next e-stat from H-man.

Edited January 15, 2014 by DefQon

[Leonardo Drummond]

Oh, thanks man! Found it!

[Torpedo]

IMHO Stax have a reputation of delivering their products at the best price they can afford. This is what explains their tendency to bankrupt. Their products are as reliable and well built as it gets. More competition wouldn't mean cheaper-better products, but perhaps right the opposite, worse products made at lower cost and using poorer materials and QC at the same prices, so profit is larger with lower sales.

I may be wrong but electrostats, needing dedicated specialty amps which can't be shared to drive cheap dynamic headphones, aren't going to become a consumer market thing no matter how good and cheap you can sell them. If not why isn't people going nuts getting a 207/252S combo, when it outperforms most mid budget dynamic combos? I see Stax as Linux, something that is good, but that if you don't try and face some restrictions and difficulties, you won't get to know how good it really is.

[justin]

the problem with the cheap Stax is they look like they were designed in 1980. maybe it is simply impossible to make an electrostat at that price point without a 5 dollar housing?

 

what they really need at that price point is a design like the Oppo headphone. if they can use Edifier to get the housing made cheap in China, maybe it is possible?

[spritzer]

I really don't think Stax care at all about competition unless they are trying to leach off their work.  It's often been stated that the SR-Omega was a reply to Sennheiser releasing the Orpheus but I've always understood it as a last ditch attempt to save the fledgling company from collapse.  They had been doing a mammoth research project to look into what truly made 'stats tick and were simply running out of time. 

 

The Lambda is from 1979 and it does show its age.  I guess their biggest problem is what to replace them with as if they go with the flat planer stuff we have now then a lot of the soundstage will go as well.  The Lambda frame is in it self a stroke of genius as it creates a semi closed space which allows for some reflection, hence creating this sense of air.  It's naturally a trade off but their real problem was always how the drivers were put together and mounted to the baffle.  With the x07 series this has been drastically improved so the best way forward would be to drop the silly model distinctions and go back to 3 models and have them all black.  One could be gray but the brown and green have to go...   As for an improved look, what they could do is change the frame to a more done shaped structure and replace the plastic grill with metal. 

 

I do think Edifer should at least attempt a cheaper line of 'stats made 100% in China.  In Stax they have the expertise to make them properly and of a consistent standard but they should not be branded Stax at all.  I'd use the Stax name in marketing and such as a way of showing the heritage but that is it.  It's better than some crap pushed by shills and people with very little exposure to 'stats we get from China now. 

[DefQon]

I actually don't mind the look of the Lambda lineup, better than the metal pos JPS has out on the market for $5.5k (including the cables). I like wood so I like to see Stax release some models using wood and before anybody chimes in Larry from headphile did not invent wood lol.

[spritzer]

Well I can attest that a Lambda driver in a HE90 shell sound pretty spectacular.    My Omegas now just gather dust... 

[screaming oranges]

On the topic of Hifiman, check this out:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Head-Direct-HIFIMAN-HE-500-Headphone-Earphone-FREE-SHIPPING-/321306058248?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item4acf555e08

 

Seller with zero feedback and seller's name is "mafiozo". In Spanish, "mafioso" means a crook, thief, etc. At least the name's honest!

[Edwood]

Review in Progress. 

 

So far, I'm very impressed.  Other than better fit and finish than the CES Prototypes, my opinions so far are similar to when I heard the Prototypes

 

Sound Quality impressions so far:  Faster, tighter, and smoother sound than the HE-6.  A bit less bass, but significantly tighter and noticeably quicker. 

Probably thanks to the much lighter drivers.

 

Speaking of weight, I measured the weights of the HE-560 and HE-6.  Quite a difference.

 

Also the new Headband is a huuuuuuuge improvement.  Only headphone more comfortable is my R10's, but the ear pads being full leather were sweaty in warm weather.  I much prefer the hybrid leather (pleather?) Velour faced ear pads.

 

As much as I liked the Abyss headphones I heard at the March 22 SoCal Head-FI meet, the HE-560 impresses me more, since it will likely be 1/5 the price of the Abyss medieval torture device. 

Edited March 27, 2014 by Edwood

[HeadphoneAddict]

Thanks for the impressions - I have a review sample arriving tomorrow!  I've always been a fan of HiFiMan headphones (most of them anyways), so I might be a slightly biased reviewer.  But I'll try to be objective about them.

[CarlSeibert]

More extended treble than the HE-500, perhaps?

 

The headband and yokes make them look like a more finished product. I guess that matters in the marketplace. FWIW, the headband on the HE-500 has never bothered me. Actually, ugly has never bothered me either, since it's more or less the midpoint of headphone aesthetics, which range from odd-looking to fugly. 

[Edwood]

Since I've owned the K1000's at one point, I simply don't care what I look like when I wear headphones, heheh.

 

I don't have the HE-500's, so I can't directly compare to the HE-500 right now.

 

So far, the HE-560's treble is smoother and not quite as extended as the HE-6.   So it lacks the level of "sparkle" that the HE-6 has, but some would call that sibilance.  Basically, the HE-560 is less picky about amps and sources.  But it's still an orthodynamic headphone, so a monster amp is still needed for the best transient response.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Edwood

[jpelg]

What are you using to drive them Ed?

[Leonardo Drummond]

Ed, do you think it's more of a reference headphone rather than a fun one? I've always thought the HE500 is an incredibly fun headphone, and that's why I like them so much. Your impressions give me the impression that this is going in another direction...

Edited March 27, 2014 by Leonardo Drummond

[HeadphoneAddict]

HE-560 INITIAL IMPRESSIONS:

 

I received the HE-560 today, and plugged them into my Nuforce CDP-8 > PWD Mk2 coax > ZDT amp right away.  I was impressed right away in the first 5 minutes. Again, the following was with just a 60 second listen with 5 or 6 songs off the CD player before heading out the door.

 

My initial thoughts about them when I put on the HE-560 to listen were (1) spacious (2) detailed and crisp (3) fast.  I'd say that my 1st thought was actually on the soundstage, where the HE-560 reminded me a little of my HE-60 - the sound seemed to come from everywhere except the ear cups. I need to listen more to see if they have a somewhat more vague & wide imaging and/or placement of instruments, there just wasn't time tonight. The HE-5 had that issue, which was improved with the HE-5LE and then HE-500; but the HE-5 never had this big of a head-stage.  Their soundstage may very well belong in the group with HD800, SR-009, and HE-60.

 

I can say that they are not as forward sounding as the HE-500, and they sound more light and airy or delicate than my HE-500 which sound a little more rich and organic at times. Maybe the description would be, they have more finesse and speed (like a stat) than the HE-500.  This probably brings them closer to the HE-6 (which I did not compare to yet tonight).  PRAT is excellent.

 

From this brief exposure I'd say they are fairly well balanced sounding, as far as frequency response goes. Bass is tight and fast, mids are crisp and clear, and treble for me was sparkly or plucky.  You could almost believe the guitar was in the room with you.  With my 52 year old ears I won't know if they are more or less extended in the treble than the HE-500 or HE-6 though, even when I compare them side by side later with test tones and music.  They may still turn out to be a little more dry and analytical than my HE-6 when I compare them later, but they were just as smooth and grain free during my brief listen.

 

The 560's disappear pretty quickly, physically and audibly, due to excellent transparency, out of head projection, and light weight. Comfort is improved with the ear pads being more like the HE-60 pads, and due to the big drop in weight vs all of my other orthodynamics (although I think these are planar dynamic not ortho, right?).  Compared to the HE-500 these things could float away.

 

I was heading out the door and couldn't listen much till tomorrow, but I did try them briefly with my iPad Air and I felt that it could drive them fairly well, although the volume was set at 75-95% most of the time.  Lack of power didn't result in a lack of bass, and with the iPad at 100% there was no distortion - it was louder than I like for casual listening but not close to concert levels.  They definitely benefit from an amp, but they are not unusable at all un-amped.

 

I.

WILL.

BUY.

THESE.

HEADPHONES.

[Edwood]

What are you using to drive them Ed?

 

HiFiMan EF-6.  Also tried Pico Power and Balanced Amp Card in an HM-901.  Using HM-901 as a source.  Sounds the best out of the EF-6, which was not surprising at all.

 

 

Ed, do you think it's more of a reference headphone rather than a fun one? I've always thought the HE500 is an incredibly fun headphone, and that's why I like them so much. Your impressions give me the impression that this is going in another direction...

 

Kind of a hybrid.  It's not nearly as aggressive as the HE-6's viseral punch.  Smoother and more laid back, but plenty of guts, particularly in the bass region.  I'm still favoring the HE-6 currently.  But the HE-560 is more comfortable (because of new ear pads and headband) to wear and less fatiguing.

 

But for those that have an HE-6, I'd definitely get a pair of the new ear pads.  I tried them on my HE-6 and really liked the results.  They're supposed to be sold on their own as well.

 

I don't have an HE-500 to compare, but am looking into getting an HE-500 to compare to the HE-560.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Edwood

[Leonardo Drummond]

Thanks, Ed! Clarifying. Your post too, Larry.

[RudeWolf]

Thanks for the info, guys. Have been thinking of getting a pair of open orthos.

[Torpedo]

Thanks for the info, guys. Have been thinking of getting a pair of open orthos.

You wouldn't say this out loud in Argentina.

[HeadphoneAddict]

HiFiMan EF-6. ...snip...  [HE-560] It's not nearly as aggressive as the HE-6's viseral punch.  Smoother and more laid back, but plenty of guts, particularly in the bass region.  I'm still favoring the HE-6 currently.  But the HE-560 is more comfortable (because of new ear pads and headband) to wear and less fatiguing.

 

But for those that have an HE-6, I'd definitely get a pair of the new ear pads.  I tried them on my HE-6 and really liked the results....

 

With an EF-6 or a strong speaker amp the HE-6 do have that special visceral punch, but with my ZDT amp (or any other non-speaker amp in my house) the HE-6 bass feels a bit too soft with less impact.  On an amp like the ZDT the HE-500 and HE-560 bass impact tops the HE-6 easily.

 

I agree, it's not just the ear pads and light weight, but also the new headband that contributes to the improved comfort. I left that out of my impressions.

 

As for the HE-6 pads, if I got some about 14 months ago, do you know if they would they be the new ones or old ones?