Cost no object - best closed headphone, past or present?

[TheSloth]

What are people's opinions on the best closed headphones, current or past production?

I'm assuming that the list is down to the R10, L3k, perhaps CD3k and the Ultrasone Editions. Did I miss anything? Current generation woodies like the DX1000 (owned, didn't like, sold) and AT's (too much upper midrange)? I heard the K340 with sealed back and didn't like it - much better open IMO.

One of my QUAD's died, and I used that as a good opportunity to sell them through the repair place. I have been thinking hard as to what to replace the setup with, and am feeling increasingly that a closed headphone that I can really enjoy would be a worthy replacement as my apartment is just never silent enough for me to really sit back and enjoy, as well as being small and awkward for speakers. I woudn't object to IEM's on sound, except they just aren't 'relaxing', all stuffed up in my ears.

Budget wise, assuming I could find one, any of the above headphones are doable. My reference is the 650, and I hate peaky midrange and highs (obviously!). I don't think it's perfect, but its flaws bother me less than anything else.

I briefly heard the L3k at a meet and was on initial listening very impressed with the tonal balance. I've never heard any of the others, but I'm fairly certain I'll hate the ultrasones. I don't want to woody the 650's, as I think that sounds weird, and doesn't give enough of an improvement in isolation for the sonic price.

[tkam]

For me it the L3000 hands down.

[TheSloth]

For me it the L3000 hands down.

How would you compare it to the 650 with proper amplification?

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

cd3k's suck balls. R10 has a cool soundstage and is detailed but thats about all thats good about it.

Biggie.

[grawk]

cd3k's suck balls.

CD3000s are a great platform on which to build custom headphones. I wasn't aware anyone actually used them as delivered from sony

[909]

The two best closed headphones I

[deepak]

I wouldn't recommend the CD3000 to anyone I liked

And I can't say I was a fan of the L3000 either.

[philodox]

Haven't heard the leatherheads yet, and the R10's didn't really do it for me. K340's without a doubt are the best closed headphones I have heard. I would have to agree with Biggie on the CD3K's.

[TheSloth]

Well that's quite a concensus .

Seems that there's plenty to not like about all the high end closed phones. That's a terrible shame for me - I just can't guarantee peace and quiet in my living environment, so any money spent on really nice speakers is partially wasted because I never feel like I can relax and enjoy them. Same goes for an open headphone system, except worse in that I find that without the spatial cues to focus my attention on, external noises are more irritating.

Though, the L3k seems to be overall very well liked. jpak, what didn't you like about the L3k?

[philodox]

There is plenty to like as well. Isolation is a huge thing depending on the circumstances.

I am in a similar situation to you I think... which is why I latched on so hard when I finally found a closed headphone that could compete with the big boys.

[deepak]

Well that's quite a concensus .

Seems that there's plenty to not like about all the high end closed phones. That's a terrible shame for me - I just can't guarantee peace and quiet in my living environment, so any money spent on really nice speakers is partially wasted because I never feel like I can relax and enjoy them. Same goes for an open headphone system, except worse in that I find that without the spatial cues to focus my attention on, external noises are more irritating.

Though, the L3k seems to be overall very well liked. jpak, what didn't you like about the L3k?

I didn't think they handled all genres of music effortlessly. I had a demo CDR I put together using all lossless files, which composed of prog metal, jazz, orchestra, trip hop, and industrial that I had at the Boston meet. I heard the L3000 on a PPX SLAM and a Balanced Supra (but the L3000 used single ended).

They were pretty sweet with the trip hop and jazz. Really nice intimate sound.

But when it came to the fast prog, it seemed to smear the sound, this was pretty obvious and we had a few people that confirmed it as well. Also I heard some HF graininess in the treble.

The tonality for the Star Wars and LotR sounded really off as well (for what it's worth I think the HD650 & K1000 handle these OSTs best). And the headphones were too "closed sounding" to make it very enjoyable. At least at the time I thought my HD580 was able to image better.

For $2000 they were just too genre specific, a shame since I was close to buying them just based off looks.

edit: oh yes I also had a few tracks off one of my favorite Swedish psych rock albums Dungen - Ta Det Lugnt. The groove factor was great. The electric guitars sounded wonderful with the L3000, but again things like cymbal hits sounded completely artificial.

[Iron_Dreamer]

I'd take the L3000 for rock, jazz, and electronic music, the R10 for symphonic music.

[n_maher]

If it were me, faced with this dilemma and the advice given so far I'd have a long think about custom IEMs. They should be more comfortable than universals from a "stuffed in the ear" perspective and something like the UE-10s or maybe something from Westone might be just what the doctor ordered. On the plus side you wouldn't need a uber-powerful amp to get the best out of an IEM either. Just my 2

[aerius]

Haven't heard the L3000 yet, but of the rest, they all have terminal flaws except for the K340.

R10 - Speed, detail, & soundstage, but not nearly enough bass and weight to the sound. I'd have to reserve it for my violin & acoustic guitar music. Highly specialized & limited, like Quad 57's but even worse.

CD3000 - Smiley face EQ, lots of slow yucky bass, crappy mids, and painful treble. It's like a boombox with bass boost.

W100 - Brutal midrange colouration & resonance, violins & acoustic guitars are unlistenable. For female vocals only, and looking pretty on a shelf or stand.

The K340 will do almost everything well, I don't think there's an area where it's the absolute best, but to me there aren't any glaring flaws either. There might be a bit of a midrange colouration and it may be a little "closed" sounding depending on which version you end up with, and that's about it. But it takes work to tune it right and amp the damn thing.

[Dusty Chalk]

I haven't heard the 4070's, but based on the Stax "house sound", I'd suspect they'd be in the running. Even the lowly SR-20 is pretty fucking good. Being a closed headphone guy myself, that's where I plan on putting my money eventually.

I like the L3000, but damn is it ever coloured. Not for everyone, and almost as finicky with amps as the R10.

The GS1000 is also extremely coloured, but I don't like it, and it's not as closed as other closed phones.

The CD3000 does not get enough love. I heard a stock pair paired with a Musical Fidelity X-CANv2, and that combo just reeked of synergy.

I am notorious for being one of the few people who just plain does not get the love of the R10's. I don't see it as having that much more detail, to compensate for its completely unforgiveable bottom end. Hirsch keeps telling me that he manages to get bass out of the thing, but it always manages to disappear by the time I get there. I'd save it for a capella music -- female a capella music -- and solo violin pieces (not even viola), but at the price, I can't afford to keep a pair of headphones for like a fraction of my music collection that might be smaller than most THD specs.

You know what gets forgotten? The ATH-A100Ti -- I wonder if there's any current headphone in the audio technica line that comes close to it. It's pretty fucking good. I'm going to listen to it some more this weekend, but I need to get new earpads. The ATH-A900 Art headphones?

I wonder if any of these are any good (just browsing at audiocubes):

JVC HP-DX1000

Audio Technica W5000 or W1000

Audio-Technica ATH-PRO700WH (they're not just closed, they're the airtightness!) link

And yes, then there's the Etymotics. Quite possibly maybe.

[humanflyz]

Based on the OP's preference for the 650s, the W5000s are NOT going to be a good option. I owned both the W5000 and the HD650 at one time, and I thought the W5000s, while it did a lot of technical things well, just sounded too hollow for my enjoyment.

[909]

jpak, what source?

Substantially diverging impressions requires one to hear it instead of relying on another

[909]

Based on the OP's preference for the 650s, the W5000s are NOT going to be a good option. I owned both the W5000 and the HD650 at one time, and I thought the W5000s, while it did a lot of technical things well, just sounded too hollow for my enjoyment.

Also some people can't get a good seal with the W5000s. I couldn't.

[TheSloth]

Thanks for all the great responses.

I've had a lot of bad luck with custom ear moulds so far. I've had impressions taken twice now for musicians ear plugs, and neither time did they come out right. The first time was in the UK, and I couldn't be there for long enough to get the free refit. The second time was in NY, but I only really noticed they weren't quite right after the refit period was over.

So I suppose yes I can consider something like the UE10, but I just don't trust ear moulds to be comfortable for me. The second audiologist commented that my ear canals, particularly the left one, are quite a difficult shape. I own Ety 4p's and think they are great, sometimes with the s adapter, but having them in my ears, though not actively uncomfortable, isn't enjoyable either with either flanges or foamies.

I've owned the DX1000's and they weren't my cup of tea - quite coloured in the midrange particularly. I owned K340's and really liked them in many ways, but didn't like them with a closed back - that gave decent isolation actually, but the sound just wasn't as balanced as with it open or partially open, to my ears. I've also owned A900ltd's, and again, the midrange was too coloured for me to enjoy.

I think I'd probably be quite disappointed with L3k's beacuse of the cost involved. To pay that much money for something I sort of like doesn't make much sense. So I guess that's pretty much the end of my closed headphones idea .

[909]

i heard a very early pair, and i heard one of the last pairs made. neither sounded substantially different to me.

I've only heard an early pair (#444); as of yet, not the later pairs. I am just repeating what I've read and seems to be overlooked or fails to get mentioned. Did you hear them back-to-back on the same set-up?

I think I'd probably be quite disappointed with L3k's beacuse of the cost involved. To pay that much money for something I sort of like doesn't make much sense. So I guess that's pretty much the end of my closed headphones idea .

As with most if not all audio gear the gains are usually diminished with the more it costs.

[deepak]

909 it was the Meridian that Mikhail uses to demo his amps. Also heard it on an Original tube output CDP, but it was paired with a cheap Original amp (so I'm not posting my impressions on that setup)

A few of us grabbed food after the meet, and all 4 of us agreed the L3000 wasn't worth the cost of admission given the price and glaring flaws. It seems we were all impressed with Mikhail's R10 and HE90.

On the same SP amps I really enjoyed the R10 and HD650.

[deepak]

If I had to sum it up I'd say it had the AT house sound with much better quality bass.

[en480c4]

And while I don't have anything to add about the L3K, I can say that the Boston meets I've been to have been fairly conducive to getting a good feel for gear if you get there early. Things usually take an hour or more to get too loud to do any listening. As people filter in and get set up, one can usually make the rounds with the other early-arrivals' gear. So I don't think it's fair to discount someone's impressions because they happened at a meet... Not all meets are created equal, and there are definitely opportunities to do some quality listening. Headphones are especially easy to check in these situations because you can use them with your own setup in a fairly quiet environment.

IMO, of course

On topic... Best of luck finding what you're looking for!

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

And while I don't have anything to add about the L3K, I can say that the Boston meets I've been to have been fairly conducive to getting a good feel for gear if you get there early. Things usually take an hour or more to get too loud to do any listening. As people filter in and get set up, one can usually make the rounds with the other early-arrivals' gear. So I don't think it's fair to discount someone's impressions because they happened at a meet...

I disagree, equipment needs time to warm up before it sounds its best.

Biggie.

[TheSloth]

I disagree, equipment needs time to warm up before it sounds its best.

Biggie.

Unless you are talking about tubes, I know of little to no equipment that goes from being bad to good. Maybe from good to great, or horrible to not quite so horrible, or even from horrible to even more horrible...